# Would A Conservative and/or Trump Supporter Rationally Explain This? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 30, 2020, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702 "2020-03-30T21:26:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/41 "2020-03-31T17:32:18Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I hope this doesn’t sound like quibbling, but, ignorance, bigotry, fear and resentment _are_ their core tribal values; the cult they have always been. I meant a _personality_ cult, which has its own set of psychological traits independent of any politics or cultural values. It is this which ensures that nothing whatsoever, even death itself, would change the mind of a trumpist. They would have to be extracted, de-programmed, etc. like any member of a cult. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/42 "2020-03-31T17:36:39Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > On the SDMB, all three steps are from liberals. And Step 3 only becomes necessary when one of the very few Trump supporters, who doesn’t mind being screamed at and insulted (and being banned if he screams or insults back) actually takes on Step 2, it is invariably followed by Step 3 consisting of “no, that isn’t why - it is bigotry, homophobia, racism, evil, etc.” > > The SDMB is 80-90% those who wouldn’t vote for Trump in a million years. And who also wouldn’t vote for Bush, McCain, Romney, Pence, Ryan, or anyone else who ever got the Republican nomination in a million years. Maybe they would be marginally less hyperbolic about it, but they would still never vote for a Republican. > > The basic rule is, 40% or so of the American public is stupid because they will automatically vote for anyone with an R after his name. Another 40% are smart because they will automatically vote for anyone with a D after his/her/their name. > > Easy-peezy lemon squeezy. > > Regards, > Shodan You are wrong. There are plenty of dopers who would vote for a moderate or even sane republican if there was a choice between that person and trump. I don’t think Ryan or Pence qualify under those criteria and the others are damn iffy but compared to trump, really, anything and anyone is better. He is a hideous human being utterly unfit for any office or really anything at all. You do not see how bizarrely and uniquely despicable he is AS A PERSON irrespective of his party, and that in itself is truly bizarre. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/43 "2020-03-31T17:40:22Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > [SARCASM]Right, no Trump Derangement Syndrome in that paragraph at all. Nothing polarising or tribal or insulting to a Trump supporter, turning them away from Democrat arguments.[/SARCASM] Seriously. Has your argument ever worked on anyone who didn’t already agree with you? No. My chief weapons are ridicule, shame and condescension. And an almost fanatical devotion to the Clintons. \*I trust that needs no theatrical notation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/44 "2020-03-31T17:45:26Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Trump is an awful person and a inveterate liar. However, what has he done that is verifiable uniquely horrible? He has lied, but every politician lies, he just does it alot more often and alot more brazenly. He has been personally petty and said mean and stupid things on twitter, but that it easy to ignore. He’s put children in concentration camps and made racism the basis for immigration policy. Perhaps you don’t find these uniquely horrible. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/45 "2020-03-31T17:53:40Z")
I don’t support Trump “the man.” I think he’s an idiot and an incompetent leader and I’m scared for the future of the country with him in charge. However, I’m also scared for the future of the country with Democratic _policies_ enacted. Not a great situation, but here we are. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/46 "2020-03-31T17:53:49Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > On the SDMB, all three steps are from liberals. And Step 3 only becomes necessary when one of the very few Trump supporters, who doesn’t mind being screamed at and insulted (and being banned if he screams or insults back) actually takes on Step 2, it is invariably followed by Step 3 consisting of “no, that isn’t why - it is bigotry, homophobia, racism, evil, etc.” > > The SDMB is 80-90% those who wouldn’t vote for Trump in a million years. And who also wouldn’t vote for Bush, McCain, Romney, Pence, Ryan, or anyone else who ever got the Republican nomination in a million years. Maybe they would be marginally less hyperbolic about it, but they would still never vote for a Republican. > > The basic rule is, 40% or so of the American public is stupid because they will automatically vote for anyone with an R after his name. Another 40% are smart because they will automatically vote for anyone with a D after his/her/their name. > > Easy-peezy lemon squeezy. > > Regards, > Shodan It may be fairly said that traditionally, ~40% vote for progressive principles, ~40% vote for conservative principles. From my observation, progressives continue to support traditionally progressive principles based on human rights and freedoms. That has become less and less true for conservatives who wish to oppose those principles for various minorities and women. So while your numbers may be correct with respect to voting behavior, they dismiss the all important motives of each grouping. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/47 "2020-03-31T17:56:53Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Trump is an awful person and a inveterate liar. However, what has he done that is verifiable uniquely horrible? He has lied, but every politician lies, he just does it alot more often and alot more brazenly. He has been personally petty and said mean and stupid things on twitter, but that it easy to ignore. Policies aside, his behavior has demonstrably emboldened some of the worst inclinations in many of his supporters, of which there are ~63M. Why should this be ignored? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/48 "2020-03-31T17:57:32Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > He’s put children in concentration camps and made racism the basis for immigration policy. Perhaps you don’t find these uniquely horrible. He had done neither. Is there a real answer? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/49 "2020-03-31T17:57:58Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > I don’t support Trump “the man.” I think he’s an idiot and an incompetent leader and I’m scared for the future of the country with him in charge. > > However, I’m also scared for the future of the country with Democratic _policies_ enacted. > > Not a great situation, but here we are. Which specific Democratic policies do you fear most and why? ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/50 "2020-03-31T17:58:48Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > He’s put children in concentration camps and made racism the basis for immigration policy. Perhaps you don’t find these uniquely horrible. No, they’re not uniquely horrible, they’re flawed attempts to deal with difficult problems that have no perfect solutions. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/51 "2020-03-31T18:00:27Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Policies aside, his behavior has demonstrably emboldened some of the worst inclinations in many of his supporters, of which there are ~63M. Why should this be ignored? If the worst inclinations of 63 million people were emboldened the country would be in flames. So far Bernie Sanders followers have done worse things and he is just a failed candidate. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/52 "2020-03-31T18:06:28Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > He had done neither. Is there a real answer? You are absolutely right. Detention of minors in border holding facilities resulting in several deaths, as well as scapegoating immigration policies aimed at Muslims and Mexicans is sufficiently deplorable without resorting to hyperbole such as “concentration camps”. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/53 "2020-03-31T18:10:23Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > If the worst inclinations of 63 million people were emboldened the country would be in flames. So far Bernie Sanders followers have done worse things and he is just a failed candidate. So the people showing up at Sanders rallies with Nazi flags and defacing his offices with swastikas… just avid Bernie-Bros? You’re right. Ignore the smoke. Let’s wait for a really good bonfire. You know how they draw a crowd. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/54 "2020-03-31T18:13:18Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > No, they’re not uniquely horrible, they’re flawed attempts to deal with difficult problems that have no perfect solutions. Easy with that. You’re getting the whitewash all over everything. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/55 "2020-03-31T18:15:35Z")
dup. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/56 "2020-03-31T18:20:29Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > You are absolutely right. Detention of minors in border holding facilities resulting in several deaths, as well as scapegoating immigration policies aimed at Muslims and Mexicans is sufficiently deplorable without resorting to hyperbole such as “concentration camps”. It’s not hyperbolic in the least. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/57 "2020-03-31T18:21:07Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > You are wrong. There are plenty of dopers who would vote for a moderate or even sane republican if there was a choice between that person and trump. No, I’m correct. In a choice between Trump and any Democrat, they will go with the Democrat. In a choice between Bush and any Democrat, they will go with the Democrat. In a choice between McCain and any Democrat, they will go with the Democrat. In a choice between Romney and any Democrat, they will go with the Democrat. In a choice between a moderate, centrist Republican and any Democrat - well, you can guess. > [@](#): > > You do not see how bizarrely and uniquely despicable he is AS A PERSON irrespective of his party, and that in itself is truly bizarre. In terms of whether or not to vote for him, Trump isn’t unique. The yellow dog Democrats on the SDMB will never vote for him. Just like every other Republican in the last twenty years. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/58 "2020-03-31T18:31:17Z")
They don’t necessarily like him personally or what he says, but they just don’t care as long as he gives them what they want. He can say anything, lie, smear, break “norms”, whatever, as long as their agenda, and not the democrat agenda, gets advanced. That’s the overall gist. I’m sure a lot of tribalism, and joy of “pwning the libs” is sprinkled in there as well, but that’s going to vary more by individual. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/59 "2020-03-31T18:33:55Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, I’m correct. In a choice between Trump and any Democrat, they will go with the Democrat. In a choice between Bush and any Democrat, they will go with the Democrat. In a choice between McCain and any Democrat, they will go with the Democrat. In a choice between Romney and any Democrat, they will go with the Democrat. In a choice between a moderate, centrist Republican and any Democrat - well, you can guess.In terms of whether or not to vote for him, Trump isn’t unique. The yellow dog Democrats on the SDMB will never vote for him. Just like every other Republican in the last twenty years. > > Regards, > Shodan Correct me if I’m wrong, but all these guys were pro-life. Some started out pro-choice but through “crisis of conscience” (read: Evangelical lobby) returned to Jesus. Most Democrat voters on the other hand, are pro-choice and remained so through those years. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/60 "2020-03-31T18:44:21Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Trump is an awful person and a inveterate liar. However, what has he done that is verifiable uniquely horrible? He has lied, but every politician lies, he just does it alot more often and alot more brazenly. He has been personally petty and said mean and stupid things on twitter, but that it easy to ignore. Verifiably uniquely horrible? [ul] [li]He has decimated our state department.[/li][li]He has politicized our judicial branch and used his bully pulpit to instill doubts in its integrity[/li][li]He has weakened our trust in journalistic institutions and spread conspiracy theories[/li][li]He has abandoned some of our allies (the Kurds), weakened our relationships with others (Canada and Europe), and emboldened our enemies (Russia, North Korea). I could go on.[/li][li]He has decimated the environmental protection agency.[/li][li]He has attacked science on many fronts.[/li][li]He has normalized profiting off of government service.[/li][li]He has weakened the rule of law.[/li][li]He has regularly used his bully pulpit to accuse political opponents of being traitors and enemies of the country.[/li][li]He has damaged our intelligence agencies (the tip of the sword).[/li][/ul] I could come up with more and I am sure we could argue about some of these, but this guy is a menace. Can you imagine when we get a left leaning populist in office and they pick up the tools that Trump has developed? You will only have yourself to blame. I think some of the things he has done are probably good for our country. I can see other things he has done that would make conservatives happy and are part of the ebb and flow of our society. But overall, this guy has really done some serious damage to our country and the Republicans have let him, nay, they have cheered him on. Fucking disgraceful. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702.md?page=4)