# Would A Conservative and/or Trump Supporter Rationally Explain This? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 30, 2020, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702 "2020-03-30T21:26:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/61 "2020-03-31T18:50:21Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Correct me if I’m wrong, but all these guys were pro-life. Some started out pro-choice but through “crisis of conscience” (read: Evangelical lobby) returned to Jesus. > > Most Democrat voters on the other hand, are pro-choice and remained so through those years. How many democrats would vote for a pro-life republican? How many republicans would vote for a pro-choice democrat? You’re never going to have an openly pro-choice Republican nominee, or an openly pro-life democrat nominee. These stances are simply not allowed under the respective party tents. This, and other hot button issues like gun control, are non-starters for a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/62 "2020-03-31T18:53:44Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > No, I’m correct. In a choice between Trump and any Democrat, they will go with the Democrat. In a choice between Bush and any Democrat, they will go with the Democrat. In a choice between McCain and any Democrat, they will go with the Democrat. In a choice between Romney and any Democrat, they will go with the Democrat. In a choice between a moderate, centrist Republican and any Democrat - well, you can guess.In terms of whether or not to vote for him, Trump isn’t unique. The yellow dog Democrats on the SDMB will never vote for him. Just like every other Republican in the last twenty years. > > Regards, > Shodan You are full of shit. I was a McCain supporter in 2000; he was my leading choice. I would have supported him in 2008 except for his toadying to Bush over the previous 8 years and then choosing Palin. I liked Romney too, but I liked Obama better and thought he deserved another term. Jon Huntsman is another Republican I would have supported. I also think Bush the senior was probably the best President we have had since Eisenhower. Trump and Bush have been the worst. Really though, I am a fiscal conservative so I tend to support Democrats. Republicans have a proven history over the last 40 years of increasing the debt and fucking up the economy. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/63 "2020-03-31T19:05:49Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > You are full of shit. I was a McCain supporter in 2000; he was my leading choice. I would have supported him in 2008 except for his toadying to Bush over the previous 8 years and then choosing Palin. I liked Romney too, but I liked Obama better and thought he deserved another term. Jon Huntsman is another Republican I would have supported. > > I also think Bush the senior was probably the best President we have had since Eisenhower. Trump and Bush have been the worst. > > Really though, I am a fiscal conservative so I tend to support Democrats. Republicans have a proven history over the last 40 years of increasing the debt and fucking up the economy. So have you voted Republican in the general in the last 28 years? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/64 "2020-03-31T19:12:09Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > How many democrats would vote for a pro-life republican? How many republicans would vote for a pro-choice democrat? > > You’re never going to have an openly pro-choice Republican nominee, or an openly pro-life democrat nominee. These stances are simply not allowed under the respective party tents. > > This, and other hot button issues like gun control, are non-starters for a lot of people. You’re confirming my earlier posts in that progressives have, ummm, progressed, while Republicans have regressed. We can go down the list: - Abortion - Gun control - LGBTQ - Social safety net programs - Healthcare - Education - Voting rights …on and on… It would be one thing to insist that the size of the population that wants more progressive policies was declining, but it isn’t. So it can be fairly said that one party is responding to demand of progressive social change, while the other is responding to the fear of social change. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/65 "2020-03-31T19:15:18Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > So have you voted Republican in the general in the last 28 years? Once. The only times I have not voted for a Democrat for President were voting for Ron Paul in 88 and George Bush in 92. I have supported Republicans in other races, though not lately. To be honest, I can’t imagine supporting them ever again with what they have become though on many policies I am more in agreement with them than the Democrats. I blame Fox News. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/66 "2020-03-31T19:17:34Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > [SARCASM]Well that solves the OP’s issue then. Everyone in this thread should read the Republican Party platform. They’ll find that it contains measured reasonable ideas, which they may disagree with, but have a rational basis. They can then ignore all the noise about the right (I hope it’s okay for me to use that term.) and conclude that there is no polarisation in US politics, and no basis for them to denounce Republicans or Trump.[/SARCASM] What a bullshit response. This thread is specifically about why some people support _ **Trump** _, with all of his lies and incompetence. You made it a general statement about “leftists” and then took my response as a broadbrush against the Republican Party. Jeez. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/67 "2020-03-31T19:20:20Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So it can be fairly said that one party is responding to demand of progressive social change, while the other is responding to the fear of social change. Well, yeah, that’s basically the definition of American progressiveness and conservatism. Conservatives by and large don’t like change. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/68 "2020-03-31T19:22:14Z")
Almost all of these responses are off-topic because none of them explain the continued support for Trump and his shenanigans. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/69 "2020-03-31T19:24:39Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Well, yeah, that’s basically the definition of American progressiveness and conservatism. Conservatives by and large don’t like change. History teaches us that this is not a sustainable strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Boycott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boycott/32/6741_2.png) [@Boycott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boycott)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/70 "2020-03-31T19:30:05Z")
I’ve asked this to a Trump supporting acquaintance of mine. Simply put: Trump has not done anything a President Pence or President Cruz would have done. But one thing Trump has done that he didn’t believe they would is cause a culture war. An onslaught on the press, institutions, and _the other side_. It’s the idea that Trump loves being hated by the other side as much, if not more, than he loves being loved by his side. This guy however says when Romney and McCain ran they wanted to be liked. _The other side_ went after them in 2008 and 2012 yet those two still wanted to reach out. Now he looks at how McCain and Romney are seen as ‘decent’ and ‘respectable’ after their defeats and feels vindicated in supporting Trump who won by sticking a middle finger up at opponents. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/71 "2020-03-31T19:32:08Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > History teaches us that this is not a sustainable strategy. What isn’t? Progressives pushing something, succeeding, becoming the “new norm” that eventually conservatives accept and even defend over time? All conservatives do is slow the progression, they can’t stop anything. Not permanently. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/72 "2020-03-31T19:36:19Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Almost all of these responses are off-topic because none of them explain the continued support for Trump and his shenanigans. I think this is a question no longer worth the asking except as a rhetorical. Nobody on this board will come out and admit that they are on board with the racism, bigotry, anti-intellectualism, anti-freedom of speech, anti-liberalism, anti-immigration as long as they get to keep their guns & money. It can’t go without saying that not every Republican wants this. But everyone who wants this tends to vote Republican. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/73 "2020-03-31T20:06:45Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > So the people showing up at Sanders rallies with Nazi flags and defacing his offices with swastikas… just avid Bernie-Bros? > > You’re right. Ignore the smoke. Let’s wait for a really good bonfire. You know how they draw a crowd. 63 million people have shown up to Sanders rallies with Nazi flags? That should have been covered by the news. How many have shown up to a baseball practice and attempted to kill a bunch of democrats? ---
**Author:** ![Ashtura](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ashtura/32/2963_2.png) [@Ashtura](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtura)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/74 "2020-03-31T20:21:02Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Nobody on this board will come out and admit that they are on board with the racism, bigotry, anti-intellectualism, anti-freedom of speech, anti-liberalism, anti-immigration as long as they get to keep their guns & money. I am not a Trump supporter, but I am a conservative of sorts and open to voting for republicans (I’m a socially libertarian atheist that grew up in a very conservative family and not all of that rubbed off of me). I have a lot of conservative family members and some conservative friends. I have explained why I think people are behind Trump. Many people have, I think, mostly accurately explained it here. If that’s not good enough then so be it. But I don’t see any point of someone raising their hand to be called a ratfuck fascist/racist/homophobe/etc. etc, which has already basically preemptively happened. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/75 "2020-03-31T20:27:03Z")
> [@Wrenching\_Spanners](#): > > Is mainstream political discourse in the US as polarised as the posts in this thread? If so, there’s your answer. If a prominent message from the left is that the views of the right are contemptible, then the right is going to be deaf to all messages from the left. So just like the left would prefer the rotting corpse of Hitler over Trump, the right would prefer literally any Republican over a leftist. You didn’t click my link, did you? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/76 "2020-03-31T20:29:07Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > Verifiably uniquely horrible? > [ul] > [li]He has decimated our state department.[/li][li]He has politicized our judicial branch and used his bully pulpit to instill doubts in its integrity[/li][li]He has weakened our trust in journalistic institutions and spread conspiracy theories[/li][li]He has abandoned some of our allies (the Kurds), weakened our relationships with others (Canada and Europe), and emboldened our enemies (Russia, North Korea). I could go on.[/li][li]He has decimated the environmental protection agency.[/li][li]He has attacked science on many fronts.[/li][li]He has normalized profiting off of government service.[/li][li]He has weakened the rule of law.[/li][li]He has regularly used his bully pulpit to accuse political opponents of being traitors and enemies of the country.[/li][li]He has damaged our intelligence agencies (the tip of the sword).[/li][/ul] > I could come up with more and I am sure we could argue about some of these, but this guy is a menace. Can you imagine when we get a left leaning populist in office and they pick up the tools that Trump has developed? You will only have yourself to blame. > > I think some of the things he has done are probably good for our country. I can see other things he has done that would make conservatives happy and are part of the ebb and flow of our society. But overall, this guy has really done some serious damage to our country and the Republicans have let him, nay, they have cheered him on. Fucking disgraceful. Most of these are demonstrably false. The State Department is still there, no seeming difference in effectiveness. The judicial branch has politicized the judicial branch. Trump has appointed some of the best judges on there. Journalistic institutions have damaged their own reputations through obvious bias and incompetence. I have not seen any sign of weak relationships with Canada and Europe. Russia and North Korea are as they have always been. Russia is much weaker now because of low oil prices. The EPA is still there, pollution and carbon emissions continue to fall. Profiting off of government service has been normal for living memory. Clinton raised hundreds of millions for her foundation from countries she was negotiating with and nobody batted an eye. The rule of law is still here. His opponents have called him a traitor and an enemy of the country. How do we know that the intelligence agencies have been hurt? The campaign against ISIS was notably better under him than Trump but other than that I can’t see any difference. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/77 "2020-03-31T20:29:38Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > 63 million people have shown up to Sanders rallies with Nazi flags? That should have been covered by the news. > > How many have shown up to a baseball practice and attempted to kill a bunch of democrats? Really? This is the best you can do? Should I go and find you cites about the sharp rise in incidents of racism, nazi rallies, shootings, etc. since Trump took office? Or do you just want to take this back as something said in the rush of the moment without thinking? ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/78 "2020-03-31T20:32:30Z")
> [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](#): > > You are full of shit. I was a McCain supporter in 2000; he was my leading choice. I would have supported him in 2008 except for his toadying to Bush over the previous 8 years and then choosing Palin. I liked Romney too, but I liked Obama better and thought he deserved another term. Jon Huntsman is another Republican I would have supported. > > I also think Bush the senior was probably the best President we have had since Eisenhower. Trump and Bush have been the worst. > > Really though, I am a fiscal conservative so I tend to support Democrats. Republicans have a proven history over the last 40 years of increasing the debt and fucking up the economy. Typical McCain supporter, thought he was great but did not vote for him. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/79 "2020-03-31T20:38:59Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > 63 million people have shown up to Sanders rallies with Nazi flags? That should have been covered by the news. > > How many have shown up to a baseball practice and attempted to kill a bunch of democrats? I’m confused at how Bernie supports have harmed our country. I don’t like Bernie, but mostly I think he is harmless. What has he (and they) done? And why aren’t Republicans upset that Trump has damaged our institutions so badly? How do you, and other conservatives in this thread, feel about the list I directed at you ~15 posts ago? Are you concerned about how Trump treats the intelligence services and the FBI? What about him calling out Democrat judges and Republican judges (never mind “Mexican” judges)? Does it bother you that he regularly gets up in front of crowds of thousands and literally says that “Democrats are the enemy of the United States?” If Obama had done this I would probably never supported Democrats again! Republicans aren’t the enemy; many of my friends and family are Republicans and they are good people. Trump and Fox news are trying to start a war, at least that is what it looks like to me. I understand partisanship. I think a lot of Republican ideas are wrong. I also think that a lot of the Democratic party platform is wrong. I think that a Sanders presidency would be a disaster, maybe even a worse one than the Trump presidency has been (doubtful, but possible). But the big problem with Trump is he takes partisanship to the next level. He claims that my neighbors and my family are enemies. He claims that the institutions that I believe in are evil while flouting the rules and norms that I believe made this country a shining city on a hill. The rule of law, equality, American ingenuity, American generosity. Now we have a country that ignores and denies science and a president that embraces racists and glorifies strongmen and dictators. What the fuck? He has made us less that what we were and Republicans don’t care. They love him for it. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2020, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702/80 "2020-03-31T20:40:50Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Most of these are demonstrably false. > The State Department is still there, no seeming difference in effectiveness. > The judicial branch has politicized the judicial branch. Trump has appointed some of the best judges on there. > Journalistic institutions have damaged their own reputations through obvious bias and incompetence. > I have not seen any sign of weak relationships with Canada and Europe. Russia and North Korea are as they have always been. Russia is much weaker now because of low oil prices. > The EPA is still there, pollution and carbon emissions continue to fall. > Profiting off of government service has been normal for living memory. Clinton raised hundreds of millions for her foundation from countries she was negotiating with and nobody batted an eye. > The rule of law is still here. > His opponents have called him a traitor and an enemy of the country. > How do we know that the intelligence agencies have been hurt? The campaign against ISIS was notably better under him than Trump but other than that I can’t see any difference. We must use different data sources. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-conservative-and-or-trump-supporter-rationally-explain-this/850702.md?page=5)