We cannot rid ourselves of this congenital idiot soon enough.
I assume that the following comment is directed at the sarcastic attempt at syllogism we saw upthread:
[ul][li] MOST New Yorkers voted for Hillary.[/li][li] Therefore ALL New Yorkers are smart enough not to drink bleach to prevent Covid-19.[/li][/ul]
Trump collected over 2.1 Million votes in Illinois in 2016, behind only California, New York and six other states.
Now that Trump has claimed his remarks were mere “sarcasm”, how silly do you feel for bending over backward to find a reasonable explanation for unreasonable and insincere statements? Do you have any thoughts on how you might avoid such embarrassment in the future?
Trump will always hang you out to dry, will always embarrass anyone who grants him the favor of good faith. He never means or understands anything he says. The default position toward his utterances should always be skeptical derision.
The title of this thread is
***Would A Conservative and/or Trump Supporter Rationally Explain This? ***
I’m really grateful that we have a thread where smart Conservatives show up to explain why they’d rather have Trump as President than Clinton or Biden.
But I’m still at a loss. (One conservative no longer with us defended Republican mischief and incompetence because it led to “liberal tears”! But surely that’s not the key to Republican thought.)
This latest episode — Trump suggests injecting Lysol, then claims that the suggestion was a sarcastic prank to get back at reporters — really does deserve some comment by our smart conservatives. Is appointing judges that help disenfranchise Democratic voters worthwhile if the price paid is a President like Trump? Are sarcastic pranks a good way to handle crises?
I think the “defense” for Trump in the latest episode is to claim that his second blathering — the blather that the first blather was a sarcastic prank — was itself a sarcastic prank. But is this really the defense that smart conservatives want to offer?
I await a serious discussion of this latest episode by Trump supporters and others who prefer a Trump Presidency to a Clinton or Biden. Thanks in advance.
This. Exactly, this.
I tend to be rather moderate, so let me put on my conservative hat here and respond to the Trump disinfectant mess.
Was Trump speaking out his ass about the disinfectant and UV lighting being a solution to the disease? Of course. He’s not a scientist, or even very smart, and he doesn’t realize it. But the media’s and the left’s reaction to what he said has been just as ridiculous as what he said in the first place.
Here’s what he did not do: he didn’t tell anyone to inject themselves, he didn’t tell anyone to drink bleach, and he didn’t tell anyone to shine light up their ass. But the left is acting like he’s making these recommendations directly to sick people and calling it a cure. The left is acting like Trump’s words are actually dangerous to people because he ASKED A DOCTOR if these were good ideas to investigate. Admittedly they are idiotic ideas, but this is how Trump brainstorms. He thinks it shows leadership to see the process, he is trying to demonstrate transparency and troubleshooting to the American people the best way he is able.
Again, he didn’t tell people to do this stuff, he just had his own ideas of things that MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS should investigate. He is a lay person asking questions to a doctor, his questions should NOT be viewed as medical advice and anyone who follows his hare-brained ideas just because he’s president is worthy of winning a Darwin Award.
Again, a lot of words there only to ignore that Trump tossed that explanation under the bus. It was all a joke as he said later…
Just like his presidency.
He’s not just some guy, he’s the President. There are people who take his words as gospel. Because of his stupid and dangerous words, some of those unfortunate folks may have harmed themselves. It’s entirely appropriate to criticize him for this and place some of the blame on him.
Do we apply that same standard to everything Trump says, and has said, during his presidency; or is it only a post hoc explanation to be trotted out when says something stupid. When he says he’ll build a wall on the border with Mexico, that there was no Russian interference in the last election, or that there was no quid pro quo with Ukraine, does he really mean those things, or is it just brainstorming so we can see the process?
And when does President Trump stop spitballing ideas and actually lead?
He doesn’t. In his own words, a leader is someone who takes responsibility for anything that happens (or doesn’t happen).
It must be embarrassing to go so far out on a limb defending Trump’s candid brainstorming, only to have the rug pulled from under you when he declared it was all sarcastic bullshit.
Has this incident taught you to be more skeptical of what Trump says? Will you have more empathy for the people who drank bleach because they gave the President the benefit of the doubt?
After all, you’re no different from them. They swallowed bleach, you swallowed his bullshit.
But it might be reasonable at some point to buy a car, depending on your needs and finances. It would never be reasonable to ingest cleaning products.
As Sterling Archer said, the media and left’s overreactions to Trump’s statements regarding Bill Bryan’s briefing are ridiculous. Trump was just showing some optimism after hearing a briefing about killing the virus, and he naively make some remarks about potentially applying what was learned to treatment of patients.
What did Trump mean by “injection”? Did he mean using an IV, intramuscular, or nasal irrigation syringe? Being that Bryan’s briefing used term “inject” three times in reference to light, maybe Trump just meant introducing light into he body. Later in the question and answers, Trump did clearly state that he wanted Bryan to look into the effects of light and heat on the infected.
There is plenty of material there to ridicule Trump’s ideas and off the cuff brainstorming, but the media felt the need to twist it into a suggestion that American’s ingest disinfectants, or chug bleach (as Amy Klobuchar said). Trump never mentioned ingestion or bleach. He did say, “you’re going to have to use medical doctors” when mentioning these studies to Bryan. This was not telling citizens to go out and chug bleach, any more than suggesting researchers look into studying blood plasma transfusions is telling people to drink infected blood. There are many types of less toxic of disinfectants he could have meant: light, heat, salt water,… but the media decided he must have meant bleach straight from the Clorox bottle and fabricated the idea that Trump mentioned ingesting it.
He’s a complete idiot and said something incredibly stupid (and even dangerous, considering his position). Why bother try defending or rationalizing it? It was colossally stupid.
Why? Because a Trump-defender’s ONLY recourse is to change the subject to ‘IT’S ALL THE MEDIA’S FAULT. The REAL problem is the MEDIA!!!11!!!’
This tired old bad-faith argument is no more effective now than it ever was.
But it is, quite literally, all they’ve got.
No. He was bullshitting, he got caught, he admitted he was being “sarcastic”.
How foolish do you feel for bending over backward to make excuses for a liar who was yanking our chain?
And he’s not just any president, he’s the president who insists that he’s the smartest guy ever, who knows more about any topic than the experts, the man who is always having people ask him, “Sir, how do you know so much about (things)?” And his followers believe this. Hook, line and sinker. Never before have we had a president of the United States who insists that he alone, knows what needs to be done.
He’s created a cult of idiots who believe everything he says, and who are too stupid to parse out the subtleties of suggestions, proposals, hypotheticals, “sarcasm”, or any other involved conversational style. They hear “inject disinfectant”, and that’s the only thing they take away from the discussion. They think their very stable genius told them it’s a cure, and that’s that.
Now the Trump supporters have to rationally explain the President being sarcastic during a briefing about a pandemic that has claimed almost 60,000 American lives.
Morons say moronic things. No problem. Many American voters are effectively on record as saying they want leaders at the same intellectual level as themselves. Happy voters. Yippee!
But you’ve completely ignored the 2nd Trump-chat, the chat that changed this from business-as-usual blather to a huge scandal. Don’t you read the news? Or even this thread?
The real travesty — frightening in what it tells us about Trump’s character and competence — came the NEXT day, the day AFTER the chat about injecting disinfectants. That was when Trump announced that the disinfectant-injection chat was sarcastic, a prank to get back at reporters. Did you miss that part of the story, Manlob?
This has nothing to do with a layman showing ignorance of science. It is a leader publicly confessing that his attention is not on the crisis, but on pranking reporters … and pranking the nation. What this tells us about Trump makes the disinfectant-injection chat irrelevant, a 2 on a scale of 1-to-100 where 99 is what Trump told us the NEXT day.
Obviously Trump was lying about the “sarcastic prank.” But what does that tell us? That lie was itself sort of a sarcastic prank. Like the fake game-show host he once was, Trump is concerned only with himself. A crisis killing a huge number of Americans is just backdrop for his sociopathic preening. Do you disagree?
The shameful behavior of this man in talking about pranking reporters should shock us all. Focus on whether or not the original disinfectant-injection chat was moronic, is misplaced.