# Would a soviet cosmonaut circa 1950 know how to tap SOS? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 26, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-soviet-cosmonaut-circa-1950-know-how-to-tap-sos/494384 "2009-04-26T05:08:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-soviet-cosmonaut-circa-1950-know-how-to-tap-sos/494384/21 "2009-04-27T00:32:03Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > Curious to know how accurate this article is: > > _[“It was a signal we recognised immediately as Morse code – SOS,” said Gian. But something about this signal was strange. It was moving slowly, as if the craft was not orbiting but was at a single point and slowly moving away from the Earth. The SOS faded into distant space.](http://www.forteantimes.com/features/articles/1302/lost_in_space.html)_ Since the first man in space didn’t get there until 1961, I’m gonna have to say no. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-soviet-cosmonaut-circa-1950-know-how-to-tap-sos/494384/22 "2009-04-27T04:34:37Z")
> [@HorseloverFat](#): > > I wonder if there’s a way to analyze them today to see if they share or dont share any audio characteristics. I’ve seen recently a documentary about these brothers (I couldn’t tell if the stories about SOS and such were mentioned, since I listened very casually), and their archives and recordings (of basically everything coming from anything launched in space at the time) are still existing. So, yes, I assume that it could be investigated. ---
**Author:** ![NoJustice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecb155/32.png) [@NoJustice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoJustice)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-soviet-cosmonaut-circa-1950-know-how-to-tap-sos/494384/23 "2009-04-27T05:17:47Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > once you hit near-Earth escape velocity - c25000 mph - you will still decelerate as you head away from the Earth, and you could very well end up moving “slowly” away from the Earth without need for any more motive power. Yes… but you wouldn’t be in an expanding orbit. If you are under escaoe velocity, your movement away from the earth eventually slows to a stop and you begin to fall back, accelerating towards the earth until you whip around the earth and get flung back out again. I think that’s called an eccentric orbit. If you are above escape velocity, your movement away from the earth slows, but doesn’t stop. You don’t fall back and _don’t go around the earth again_. Thus, you aren’t in an expanding orbit or any other kind of orbit. Maybe that’s what was meant by “at a single point and slowly moving away from the Earth” but I get the feeling both of these descriptions were written by people who are under the impression that “there’s no gravity in space” and picture the supposed cosmonauts just drifting away. Of corse, that’s just not how it works in reality. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-soviet-cosmonaut-circa-1950-know-how-to-tap-sos/494384/24 "2009-04-27T05:49:38Z")
From the linked article: > [@](#): > > **HOW DID THE BROTHERS KNOW THEY WERE TRACKING A SATELLITE?** > > As a satellite travels at 18,000 mph (29,000km/h) or faster, the Doppler effect makes the frequency of its signals change considerably as it approaches and recedes: when it is approaching a listening point, its frequency is higher; when it is moving away, its frequency is lower. By measuring the shift of the Doppler effect, it is possible to estimate a satellite’s speed and therefore its expected rotational time and its distance above the Earth. A signal the Judica-Cordiglias picked up on 28 November 1960, which they believe was an SOS transmission from a Russian spacecraft, had a slower Doppler effect than normal, as if the craft was not orbiting the Earth but was at a single point and slowly moving away into space. This makes no sense at all. It seems to be saying you can recognize a satellite because the Doppler shift shows orbital speed. But the 1960/11/28 signal didn’t have these characteristics, so it’s… a satellite _not_ in orbit? :smack: In any case, it’s silly to think that a spacecraft designed to go into low-earth orbit can somehow end up with escape speed by accident. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2009, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-soviet-cosmonaut-circa-1950-know-how-to-tap-sos/494384/25 "2009-04-27T06:12:48Z")
Now that the Soviet Union is no more, can the records of their space program be accessed? I think the soviets were very secretive, and it is indeed possible that there were accidents (that were not reported at the time). So if the sovs lots some guys, the records should show this…anybody know what the archives have revealed? ---
**Author:** ![Omphaloskeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bcef8e/32.png) [@Omphaloskeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omphaloskeptic)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-soviet-cosmonaut-circa-1950-know-how-to-tap-sos/494384/26 "2009-04-28T02:34:32Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > This makes no sense at all. It seems to be saying you can recognize a satellite because the Doppler shift shows orbital speed. But the 1960/11/28 signal didn’t have these characteristics, so it’s… a satellite _not_ in orbit? :smack: This actually makes sense, at least if you allow for a pretty vaguely-written explanation. There are two important components to the Doppler shift for an orbiting object: from the object’s orbital velocity, and from the Earth’s rotational velocity. An object in low-Earth orbit has an orbital speed of about 8000m/s, roughly 16 times larger than the Earth’s rotational speed of 500m/s. So a transmitter in LEO has a Doppler shift of roughly 2.5e-5 (so for Sputnik’s frequency of 20MHz, a shift of about 500Hz), while a star-synchronous transmitter has a Doppler shift of about 1.5e-6 (about 30Hz at 20MHz). An Earth-fixed transmitter, of course, has no Doppler shift at all. This is (maybe) what the article is talking about: seeing a Doppler shift, but less of one than usual–of only ~60Hz instead of ~1000Hz (and over a longer time period). Of course that could also just indicate a higher orbit than usual; you’d have to do some longer-term tracking to decide which you’re actually seeing. > [@](#): > > _In any case, it’s silly to think that a spacecraft designed to go into low-earth orbit can somehow end up with escape speed by accident._ I agree with this, though. The date seems wrong to be anything other than a LEO attempt, which wouldn’t have enough fuel for escape. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-soviet-cosmonaut-circa-1950-know-how-to-tap-sos/494384/27 "2009-04-28T02:38:18Z")
O S O enough said ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2009, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-soviet-cosmonaut-circa-1950-know-how-to-tap-sos/494384/28 "2009-04-28T03:28:23Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > Since the first man in space didn’t get there until 1961, I’m gonna have to say no. Read Cecil’s article linked above- the theory is that the Soviets covered up the _actual_ first man in space, since it wouldn’t be much of a PR coup if he was still up there when you fired up the press conference cameras. Apparently unfounded, of course, but just because Gagarin is said to be first doesn’t make it so. > [@](#): > > While LED technology had been around since the 1920’s, the first practical LED’s weren’t produced until 1962, and they cost over $200 each. It is just not likely that hobbyists used them in their cobbled together command center; I doubt that even NASA was using them at that time. They built a 50-foot satellite dish and presumably something to shift it around (ie., a motor, servo, or whatever) so “hobbyists” probably isn’t quite accurate. Anyway, it’s more likely that the author of the article simply doesn’t know the difference between an LED and a light bulb. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-soviet-cosmonaut-circa-1950-know-how-to-tap-sos/494384.md?page=1)