# Would a Technologically Advanced Civilization Have A Monarchical Government? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 10, 2005, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665 "2005-04-10T15:09:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665/21 "2005-04-11T21:44:14Z")
> [@wonderwench](#): > > This is driving me nuts. I read a scifi short story years ago about a group of youths who were sent out into space. I can’t recall if if was because earth was at war or if they were on an exploratory mission. While in space, they bio-engineered themselves into a race of near gods. I wish I could remember it! _The Gold At The Starbow’s End_ by Fredric Pohl. Also expanded into a novel, _Starbow_. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665/22 "2005-04-11T23:19:51Z")
Regardless of the various tangents into published (or hoped to be published) science fiction, I would point out that we have already seen technologically advanced monarchies. China was a technologically advanced society for millennia. Ancient Egypt was technologically advanced. Technology in Rome did not fall with the dissolution of the Republic, it continued for a few hundred more years under the caesars. I’m not sure what there is about the steam engine or the electric generator that changes that aspect of society. As long as the average person gets up each morning with a reasonable expectation to survive the day and provide for his or her family, that person will be willing to support the society in which he or she lives, including any technological advances that it provides. Representative government may have an effect on many aspects of life, but it is hardly a prerequisite for the development or use of technology. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665/23 "2005-04-12T00:26:21Z")
How about this? You have an absolute monarch with total power over everything. Then you have a secret team of twenty or so highly trained assassins, all with unknown identities, whose job is to eliminate the monarch if they become too abusive, tyrannical, or insane. The assassins are funded by the government, and are authorized to kill the monarch if any attempt is made to cut off the funding. You get to keep the great monarchs and let them work their great stuff, while disposing of the really terrible monarchs before they can wreak too much damage. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665/24 "2005-04-12T05:38:08Z")
One other thing i’d like to point out is that democracy breeds corruption as well. ---
**Author:** ![MMI](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/53a042/32.png) [@MMI](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MMI)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665/25 "2005-04-12T11:31:40Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > How about this? You have an absolute monarch with total power over everything. Then you have a secret team of twenty or so highly trained assassins, all with unknown identities, whose job is to eliminate the monarch if they become too abusive, tyrannical, or insane. The assassins are funded by the government, and are authorized to kill the monarch if any attempt is made to cut off the funding. You get to keep the great monarchs and let them work their great stuff, while disposing of the really terrible monarchs before they can wreak too much damage. My guess is that the guy who runs the assassins will have no small amount of influence. One of the problems in the Roman Empire (post Nero at any rate) was that the troops, including the elite bodyguard units, would appoint a new emperor (revolt/start a civil war) if they did not receive sufficient bonuses when they thought it appropriate. The assassins could conceivably put up with more crap from a generous emperor than from a penurious one. And judgements as to who is a good or bad emperor are pretty tough call (until it is too late). ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665/26 "2005-04-12T13:12:05Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > How about this? You have an absolute monarch with total power over everything. Then you have a secret team of twenty or so highly trained assassins, all with unknown identities, whose job is to eliminate the monarch if they become too abusive, tyrannical, or insane. The assassins are funded by the government, and are authorized to kill the monarch if any attempt is made to cut off the funding. You get to keep the great monarchs and let them work their great stuff, while disposing of the really terrible monarchs before they can wreak too much damage. How about that’s stupid? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665/27 "2005-04-12T20:51:17Z")
> [@](#): > > How about that’s stupid? While not a technical violation of the rule that prohibits attacking the poster while permitting attacking the idea, this reply certainly violates the spirit of the rule. A bit less hostility and a bit of explanation would carry forward the discussion more than an insulting dismissal. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665/28 "2005-04-12T20:56:34Z")
hehe… I actually like the assassin idea… it certainly puts the edge on being a Monarch ! ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665/29 "2005-04-13T02:57:37Z")
Larry Niven had a good bit of sophistry to explain the feudal structure of the CoDominium universe. They have FTL travel, but no communication faster than an FTL ship. Travel between stars takes months. Also defensive shields make it difficult to simply nuke a planet from orbit. So if you have an interstellar government it will be feudalistic. Each planet is semi-independent but not TOO independent. Maintaining the empire is a lot of work, since planets can declare independence fairly easily, but that independence is very risky, since the combined weight of the empire can eventually be brought to bear on any one rebellious planet. So aristocrats rule each planet and owe personal loyalty to the emperor and rule as his vassals. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665/30 "2005-04-13T03:34:24Z")
> [@MMI](#): > > My guess is that the guy who runs the assassins will have no small amount of influence. One of the problems in the Roman Empire (post Nero at any rate) was that the troops, including the elite bodyguard units, would appoint a new emperor (revolt/start a civil war) if they did not receive sufficient bonuses when they thought it appropriate. The assassins could conceivably put up with more crap from a generous emperor than from a penurious one. And judgements as to who is a good or bad emperor are pretty tough call (until it is too late). Let me clarify. Nobody other than the assassins have any clue who the assassins are. It is an entirely secret organization. Indeed, ideally, each assassin would not even know who the other nineteen are. Thus, the assassins could not wield any influence without revealing who they really are. Once their identity is revealed the King could then use his power to have them killed, so they have a strong motive not to reveal their identity. What I have in mind is that the assassins work by majority rule; eleven of them have vote for killing and then the kill happens. Alternately if that was too low a standard, you could say that all twenty have to agree it’s time for a kill, or nineteen, or whatever. It would probably be best if the assassins were chosen from among the rich and powerful, so that even if someone found out their identity it would be tough to bribe them into making an unnecessary kill (or avoiding a necessary kill). ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665/31 "2005-04-13T11:15:59Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > Let me clarify. Nobody other than the assassins have any clue who the assassins are. It is an entirely secret organization. Indeed, ideally, each assassin would not even know who the other nineteen are. Thus, the assassins could not wield any influence without revealing who they really are. Once their identity is revealed the King could then use his power to have them killed, so they have a strong motive not to reveal their identity. What I have in mind is that the assassins work by majority rule; eleven of them have vote for killing and then the kill happens. Alternately if that was too low a standard, you could say that all twenty have to agree it’s time for a kill, or nineteen, or whatever. It would probably be best if the assassins were chosen from among the rich and powerful, so that even if someone found out their identity it would be tough to bribe them into making an unnecessary kill (or avoiding a necessary kill). Cool idea, but I feel a bit too open for corruption. Read Frank Herbert’s [The Dosadi Experiement](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0765342537/qid=1113390879/sr=1-11/ref=sr_1_11/102-1873632-2062534?v=glance&s=books) or [Whipping Star](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0425064573/qid=1113391035/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-1873632-2062534?v=glance&s=books); the hero of both books is a guy who works for an organization that is designed to combat bureaucracy in all it’s forms, to the point of sabotage and murder. Quite interesting, and quite applicable to your idea of the Assasin’s Guild deployed to kill the monarch if he gets too crazy… ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665/32 "2005-04-13T12:47:36Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > Let me clarify. Nobody other than the assassins have any clue who the assassins are. It is an entirely secret organization. Indeed, ideally, each assassin would not even know who the other nineteen are. Thus, the assassins could not wield any influence without revealing who they really are. Once their identity is revealed the King could then use his power to have them killed, so they have a strong motive not to reveal their identity. What I have in mind is that the assassins work by majority rule; eleven of them have vote for killing and then the kill happens. Alternately if that was too low a standard, you could say that all twenty have to agree it’s time for a kill, or nineteen, or whatever. So, how is this vote supposed to take place if nobody knows who the eligible voters are? ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665/33 "2005-04-13T13:12:26Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > So, how is this vote supposed to take place if nobody knows who the eligible voters are? That;s easy. You don’t know names or anything else, but have an anonymous contact link (say an anonymous mailing board or email account) that they all have access to. Heck, even just knowing an 800-number for a conference call would be enough! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665/34 "2005-04-13T16:40:20Z")
> [@Steve MB](#): > > So, how is this vote supposed to take place if nobody knows who the eligible voters are? As I originally concieved the idea in a story I was writing (that I never finished) all the assassins meet at night in a location that only they now. They are all wearing nondescript robes and masks to conceal their identities. Each one of them is presented with two balls, one black and one white, and each drops one ball in a cannister. A white ball is a vote for life, black is a vote for death. The total number of balls in the cannister constitutes the final vote. It isn’t even necessary for all the assassins to be in the building at the same time, just so long as the cannister is tamper resistant, i.e. each assassin can only add one ball but can’t do anything to affect the balls already in there. Of course, as **GomiBoy** has mentioned, modern technology offers electronic options to accomplish the same end. ---
**Author:** ![Rashak\_Mani](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ea666f/32.png) [@Rashak\_Mani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rashak_Mani)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665/35 "2005-04-13T18:26:22Z")
Since no one knows the assassins… how do you avoid other groups from simply killing the Monarch and letting the media frenzy think its the assassins ? When its “normal” to remove monarchs with assassins… soon others will try it too. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2005, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665/36 "2005-04-13T19:53:25Z")
Hey, I never said the system was perfect. The idea in my story was that the assassins included people close to the King, so they would have more opportunity to kill him off than your average Joe off the street. Also they had important information such as secret passageways within the King’s palace, which they passed down from one generation to the next. And lastly, they’re all well trained in the art of killing people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-a-technologically-advanced-civilization-have-a-monarchical-government/298665.md?page=1)