# Would Al Gore/Bob Graham have won in 2000? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 5, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072 "2010-06-05T16:20:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/1 "2010-06-05T16:20:59Z")
In my opinion, there is no doubt that if Gore would have picked Bob Graham as his running mate, he would have won Florida convincingly and thus won the 2000 presidential election. The choice of Lieberman was a horrible one. Connecticut was never in doubt and neither was the Jewish vote. Gore thought he had to run from the whole Clinton/Lewinsky debacle and that was a mistake. By the time of the election, impeachment was as much of the past as the Y2K bug. Having a popular politician like Graham would have flipped some Nader voters and also probably helped a bit in the get out the vote. Bush would have also had to devote far more time and money in Florida, which might have also put Ohio in play for Gore in 2000. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Knig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@Typo\_Knig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Knig)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/2 "2010-06-05T21:57:27Z")
IMO, Al Gore did not do what he needed to do to win the 2000 election - decide who he really was, make peace with it, and get the American people to like that person enough to vote for him, all well before the primary season, let alone before the general election. Even with all his advantages of experience, his campaign zigged and zagged. A different VP pick would not have made that much of a difference - Leiberman was wildly popular in Florida at the time, and worked very hard to get the ticket elected. Electoral success at the presidential level stands or falls at the top of the ticket. A good VP pick can help a little, but not as much as a good candidate can help him or herself. A bad VP pick can hurt, but not so much that a candidate can’t recover. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/3 "2010-06-05T22:27:59Z")
My recollection is that Gore trailed in the polls for virtually the whole campaign right up until he chose Lieberman. By that standard, Lieberman seemed to be a fairly good pick. On the other hand, Bob Graham is a little nutty. Not a lot, just some. Would the press have run wild over his OCD-like traits? Probably. Could he have won Florida for Gore? Probably, but then again, my strong suspicion is that Lieberman won Florida for Gore, too. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/4 "2010-06-07T15:50:43Z")
No. All presidential elections since the 1970’s have been won by the candidate who is most charismatic. In 2000, that was Bush when compared to Gore. No change at the VP level would have changed that fact. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/5 "2010-06-07T16:08:41Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > The choice of Lieberman was a horrible one. Connecticut was never in doubt and neither was the Jewish vote. I don’t know. Even with Lieberman, Buchanan got a large portion of the Florida Jewish vote. But in all seriousness, I don’t think it would have made much of a difference had Gore picked Graham. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/6 "2010-06-07T18:06:00Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > But in all seriousness, I don’t think it would have made much of a difference had Gore picked Graham. Right, but “not much of a difference” would equal 600 votes in the whole state of Florida, no? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/7 "2010-06-07T18:10:13Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > I don’t know. Even with Lieberman, Buchanan got a large portion of the Florida Jewish vote. > > But in all seriousness, I don’t think it would have made much of a difference had Gore picked Graham. Good Lord, you’re right! Why didn’t Gore realize it sooner? A Gore/Buchannan ticket could have spared us eight disastrous years! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/8 "2010-06-07T18:25:01Z")
> [@tim-n-va](#): > > No. All presidential elections since the 1970’s have been won by the candidate who is most charismatic. In 2000, that was Bush when compared to Gore. No change at the VP level would have changed that fact. How does anybody see Bush as “charismatic”? He was my governor at the time & had always impressed me as a half-bright ex-Frat guy. Gore always seemed like a smart fellow; he still does. Does “charismatic” mean you want to worship somebody? Or fuck them? Or get fucked by them? No change at the VP level would have helped when the Governor of the swing state was one candidate’s brother. ---
**Author:** ![2ply](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/b2d939/32.png) [@2ply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ply)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/9 "2010-06-07T18:36:18Z")
And conservatives don’t understand how anyone can find Obama charismatic, yet a whole bunch of people in the middle of the country found _both_ men appealing. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/10 "2010-06-07T18:58:06Z")
Running on the charisma theory, Bush definitely had more charisma than Gore in 2000. Bush pushed his image as a guy you’d like to sit down and have a beer with. Meanwhile, Gore was thought by many to be sort of… robot-like. So, Bush may not seem particularly charismatic, particularly when compared to Clinton before him or Obama after him, but compared to the likes of Gore and Kerry, well, he didn’t have to do much. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/11 "2010-06-07T18:59:22Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > How does anybody see Bush as “charismatic”? He was my governor at the time & had always impressed me as a half-bright ex-Frat guy. Gore always seemed like a smart fellow; he still does. > > Does “charismatic” mean you want to worship somebody? Or fuck them? Or get fucked by them? > > No change at the VP level would have helped when the Governor of the swing state was one candidate’s brother. I was thinking of the more or less standard definition of charisma. > [@](#): > > Charisma (Greek “kharisma,” meaning “gift,” “of/from/favored by God/the divine”) is a trait found in persons whose personalities are characterized by a personal charm and magnetism (attractiveness), along with innate and powerfully sophisticated abilities of interpersonal communication and persuasion. One who is charismatic is said to be capable of using their personal being, rather than just speech or logic alone, to interface with other human beings in a personal and direct manner, and effectively communicate an argument or concept to them. You almost made my point. Bush did come across as a half-bright ex-frat guy and Gore seemed like a smart fellow. But neither of those indicates or conflicts with charisma. Gore was seemed to be the smarter candidate but he was boring so Bush won. My contention, although I wish it were not, is that a well qualified but boring person cannot be elected but a friendly idiot can. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/12 "2010-06-07T19:02:35Z")
And to follow up: Ford versus Carter Carter versus Reagan Reagan versus Mondale G.H.W. Bush versus Dukakis Clinton versus G.H.W. Bush Clinton versus Dole G. W. Bush versus Gore G. W. Bush versus Kerry Obama versus McCain The nice, friendly - charismatic - factor is a perfect predictor. ---
**Author:** ![Algorithm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/algorithm/32/12204_2.png) [@Algorithm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algorithm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/13 "2010-06-07T21:02:43Z")
> [@tim-n-va](#): > > No. All presidential elections since the 1970’s have been won by the candidate who is most charismatic. In 2000, that was Bush when compared to Gore. No change at the VP level would have changed that fact. What is it about charisma that will necessarily give someone more electoral votes, but not necessarily more popular votes? ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/14 "2010-06-07T22:20:19Z")
> [@Algorithm](#): > > What is it about charisma that will necessarily give someone more electoral votes, but not necessarily more popular votes? Bush was on his way to a rather handy win in popular and electoral votes, but the DUI discovery the weekend before the election brought him back a few points. Plus Gore was part of an administration that had the economy rocking along, peace with everyone (for the most part) and all was well on the home front. By rights, Gore should have walked away with that election. Bush did a hell of a job just making it close. ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/15 "2010-06-07T22:28:31Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > My recollection is that Gore trailed in the polls for virtually the whole campaign right up until he chose Lieberman. By that standard, Lieberman seemed to be a fairly good pick. By that standard, Sarah Palin was an excellent pick. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/16 "2010-06-08T06:14:46Z")
> [@Blaster\_Master](#): > > Running on the charisma theory, Bush definitely had more charisma than Gore in 2000. Bush pushed his image as a guy you’d like to sit down and have a beer with. Meanwhile, Gore was thought by many to be sort of… robot-like. So, Bush may not seem particularly charismatic, particularly when compared to Clinton before him or Obama after him, but compared to the likes of Gore and Kerry, well, he didn’t have to do much. Yes, I heard those phrases about the guy you wanted to have a beer with versus the robot. Actually, I read them on the internet. I never, personally said I’d like to have a beer with Bush; as an alcoholic who never got treatment, he’d probably be a mean one. He’d end up barfing & would have _nothing_ interesting to say. I never, personally, considered Gore to be a robot. I thought he was a somewhat reserved, intelligent guy. I never heard anybody come up with these thoughts, either–on their own. And I live in Texas, although I hang out with pretty smart folks. Don’t believe everything you read. (And, how does “charisma” win you fewer popular votes & more electoral ones?) ---
**Author:** ![2ply](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/b2d939/32.png) [@2ply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ply)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/17 "2010-06-08T06:57:51Z")
This is just my personal take, and I wasn’t even old enough to vote in 2000, but I don’t think much of Bush’s appeal to the public came until after 9/11. During the 2000 election both Bush and Gore didn’t seem particularity exciting, to me at least, and the drawn out fight in Florida seemed pointless to me because I didn’t think either of those guys looked like they had what it would take to serve more than one term. Obviously, I was wrong, but it wasn’t until 9/11 that the Bush we all came to know appeared and won over at least 50.9% of the country. His black and white view of things, “us vs. the evildoers” struck a chord with people after the attacks. The same policies could appeal to the hawks and the Religious Right. I don’t know where “the guy you wanted to have a beer with” thing came from. I think it was from people trying to explain his win in 2004 because they couldn’t see that it came down to him looking like a War President when Kerry didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/18 "2010-06-08T07:20:10Z")
> [@2ply](#): > > This is just my personal take, and I wasn’t even old enough to vote in 2000, but I don’t think much of Bush’s appeal to the public came until after 9/11. During the 2000 election both Bush and Gore didn’t seem particularity exciting, to me at least, and the drawn out fight in Florida seemed pointless to me because I didn’t think either of those guys looked like they had what it would take to serve more than one term. > > Obviously, I was wrong, but it wasn’t until 9/11 that the Bush we all came to know appeared and won over at least 50.9% of the country. His black and white view of things, “us vs. the evildoers” struck a chord with people after the attacks. The same policies could appeal to the hawks and the Religious Right. > > I don’t know where “the guy you wanted to have a beer with” thing came from. I think it was from people trying to explain his win in 2004 because they couldn’t see that it came down to him looking like a War President when Kerry didn’t. I’ve been old enough to vote for many years now; I don’t get my excitement from politicians. The drawn out fight in Florida was _not_ pointless; it was a corrupt state government fighting to have the governor’s brother become president. Then the Supreme Court stepped in. George Bush was my governor; he wasn’t too bright, but many Texas governors aren’t. During his candidacy & presidency, his ability to speak in public declined. People razz Obama for using teleprompters; it was suspected that Bush had an earpiece to feed him words, reading being a bit tough for him. Yes, he was really[on the job](http://www.historycommons.org/events-images/299_booker_classroom_closeup2050081722-9138.jpg) on 9/11. The “having a beer” meme was around during the first campaign. Again, I never heard anybody say this. But I read about it. How the _heck_ could anybody consider Bush a better “war president” than Kerry? Kerry actually did go to Vietnam–as did Al Gore; Bush’s daddy got him a National Guard appointment that he did not complete with good faith. ---
**Author:** ![Superhal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Superhal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superhal)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/19 "2010-06-08T10:05:47Z")
Gore did win, but George’s brother and Katherine Harris fixed the election to give him Florida. ---
**Author:** ![tim-n-va](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim-n-va/32/3001_2.png) [@tim-n-va](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim-n-va)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072/20 "2010-06-08T13:54:23Z")
> [@](#): > > (And, how does “charisma” win you fewer popular votes & more electoral ones?) The mechanisms that allow you to lose the popular vote and win electoral vote is the same regardless of the motivation of the voters. That is you win lose in states with few electoral votes and win by a slight margin in states with large numbers of electoral votes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-al-gore-bob-graham-have-won-in-2000/542072.md?page=2)