Nevertheless, Afghanistan, by harboring and supporting ObL, did directly attack the U.S., and Gore would have responded to that in kind.
[QUOTE=Starving Artist]
That’s a strawman??? :eek:
[/QUOTE]
You have got to be kidding me.
[QUOTE=Raygun99]
You have got to be kidding me.
[/QUOTE]
As a matter of fact, yeah. That’s why I followed that comment with “Seriously” in the paragraph to follow.
Iraq no, Afghanistan probably.
Invading Iraq was a move motivated by Bush and the people he’s beholden to- neocons and the religious right, oil and military-industrial complex interests, and his family’s history in the region. Odious as Saddam’s regime may have been, Gore wouldn’t have invaded- there was never any real reason to.
In Afghanistan, though, there was a real reason to invade, what with the Taliban sheltering bin Laden and all. With a large part of the world supporting that sort of a move, I think Gore would have invaded Afghanistan, unless he’d become a much stronger dove than he appeared during the election and Clinton’s presidency.
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
Nevertheless, Afghanistan, by harboring and supporting ObL, did directly attack the U.S., and Gore would have responded to that in kind.
[/QUOTE]
No doubt about it in my mind.
I voted for Gore, did not care for Bush from the get-go, and identify myself with a fairly liberal political stance. But when Bush moved to go to war in Afghanistan, I recall quite clearly thinking “He’s doing the right thing. Perhaps he won’t be as bad a president as I’d feared”.
Sadly, I was wrong in that opinion about Bush. But he had my agreement (and that of most folks of a liberal bent that I associate with) that war with Afghanistan was necessary.
So stop painting with your broad brush, SA. I’ve found that your particular opinion on what lefties think & how they act (here, and in countless other threads) has little congruence with the reality that I have observed and experienced.
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton]
Nevertheless, Afghanistan, by harboring and supporting ObL, did directly attack the U.S., and Gore would have responded to that in kind.
[/QUOTE]
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that point. I think he would have used the fact that ObL was not part of the official Afghan government, that official Afghan harboring and support of ObL could not be proven, and that there was no proof ObL was in Afghanistan anyway, in order to avoid undertaking a military invasion of Afghanistan.
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan]
No doubt about it in my mind.
I voted for Gore, did not care for Bush from the get-go, and identify myself with a fairly liberal political stance. But when Bush moved to go to war in Afghanistan, I recall quite clearly thinking “He’s doing the right thing. Perhaps he won’t be as bad a president as I’d feared”.
[/QUOTE]
He had most of the world on his side with Afghanistan. Then he pissed it away.
[QUOTE=Starving Artist]
We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that point. I think he would have used the fact that ObL was not part of the official Afghan government, that official Afghan harboring and support of ObL could not be proven, and that there was no proof ObL was in Afghanistan anyway, in order to avoid undertaking a military invasion of Afghanistan.
[/QUOTE]
Why ?
[QUOTE=Starving Artist]
IMO, lefties just find the idea of war (and of the U.S. appearing to throw its weight around) too abhorent to undertake strong military action as long as they can hide behind sanctions and the U.N. and declare they are doing all that they rightfully can to address the situation.
[/QUOTE]
Question; American lefties or lefties in general?
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan]
No doubt about it in my mind.
I voted for Gore, did not care for Bush from the get-go, and identify myself with a fairly liberal political stance. But when Bush moved to go to war in Afghanistan, I recall quite clearly thinking “He’s doing the right thing. Perhaps he won’t be as bad a president as I’d feared”.
Sadly, I was wrong in that opinion about Bush. But he had my agreement (and that of most folks of a liberal bent that I associate with) that war with Afghanistan was necessary.
So stop painting with your broad brush, SA. I’ve found that your particular opinion on what lefties think & how they act (here, and in countless other threads) has little congruence with the reality that I have observed and experienced.
[/QUOTE]
With all due respect, Qadgop, and I mean that sincerely, I must disagree with you on a few points. First of all, the fact that you and some of your left-leaning acquaintances felt Bush was doing the right thing by going into Afghanistan in no way means Gore would have done so himself. Secondly, I wasn’t painting with a broad brush; I was speaking of Gore and of what I’ve seen of Democratic presidents (and congressional politicians) in my lifetime. Thirdly, and this may come as something of a surprise, I’m inclined to agree that perhaps my view of ‘lefties’ has indeed become skewed from that of the general population, given that so much of what I’ve seen of them over the last few years comes from what I’ve observed on this board which is definately left of most of the country. Still, my estimation as to what Gore (and Gore in particular, since I view him as even more impotent in this regard than your average Democratic politician) would do or how he would go about it stands. YMV, of course.
[QUOTE=Squink]
Would Dick Cheney have been Al’s VP?
[/QUOTE]
Only if something truly biarre happened with the Electoral College :eek: !
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold]
Question; American lefties or lefties in general?
[/QUOTE]
FWIW, I was speaking of American lefties.
Remember, also, that Al Gore is no lefty, no more than Bill or Hillary.
[QUOTE=Starving Artist]
FWIW, I was speaking of American lefties.
[/QUOTE]
Just wondered if I needed to feel insulted or not. 
[QUOTE=Starving Artist]
I think he would have used the fact that ObL was not part of the official Afghan government, that official Afghan harboring and support of ObL could not be proven, and that there was no proof ObL was in Afghanistan anyway, in order to avoid undertaking a military invasion of Afghanistan.
[/QUOTE]
This is easily one of the stupidest arguments ever made in this forum.
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold]
Just wondered if I needed to feel insulted or not.
[/QUOTE]
Nope. You’re off the hook.
[QUOTE=Cervaise]
This is easily one of the stupidest arguments ever made in this forum.
[/QUOTE]
I believe ‘most stupid’ would be more grammatically correct.
[QUOTE=mstay]
Now, a more interesting question IMO would be a hypothetical Gore response to the 2003 Iranian letter which advocated for a renormalization of the Iran-U.S. relationship. The Bush administration rebuffed them and then later had Rice lie about the letter to Congress. Would Gore have had a similar outlook? I don’t even know Gore’s public thoughts on Iran. Hopefully it wouldn’t be similar to many of the other Dem hawks.
[/QUOTE]
First, Gore would not have invaded Iraq. After 9/11, the capture of Osama Bin Laden, the destruction of Al Quaeda, and the reconstruction of post-Taliban Afghanistan would’ve been the top priorities. Intervention in Iraq would’ve come about only if there was evidence Saddam was acting up again and would’ve been limited to perhaps a few bombing raids to “keep him in his box” while the main conflict against Al Quaeda continued.
As for Iran, I think there’s a good chance we would’ve normalized relations with the country before 2003. Iran disliked both the Taliban and Bin Laden so they were willing to supply the US with intelligence against them shortly after 9/11. Also, relations had been slightly warming since the election of the reformer Mohammed Khatami in 1997 so there had been some groundwork laid down during the Clinton Administration. Gore would not have behaved like Bush and slapped Iran on the “Axis of Evil-Do Not Talk To!” list in 2002 thereby blowing a diplomatic opportunity that, for all due purposes, closed with the election of Khatami’s successor Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in 2005.
[QUOTE=Starving Artist]
I believe ‘most stupid’ would be more grammatically correct.
[/QUOTE]
And leaving “one of” out of the statement would be more accurate.
Starving Artist, the invasion of Afghanistan was and is supported by the UN. Resolution 1386 [pdf]. How rude to ignore the large number of UN and NATO member countries defending the US there.
Jesus H, SA even French servicepeople have died in defense of the US in Afghanistan.
As for Iraq: you’ve got to be kidding. Of course he wouldn’t have been so idiotic. Well, unless Gore had Rummy whispering in his ear.