# Would alternative energy be the ultimate weapon against ISIS? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 26, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643 "2015-11-26T16:12:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Salvor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Salvor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salvor)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/21 "2015-11-27T00:34:11Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > The problem is that that lessens our income as well. I don’t want us to get off oil immediately. This is the fatal flaw with too many people in the environmental left. They want us to live in the gutter, walk/ride bikes for miles on end instead of use cars to get from A to B, or worse, take public transportation in LOS ANGELES !!! And they want that asap. I don’t. I want us to work more heavily on making the cleaner forms of transportation like electric cars cheaper faster. If anyone wants us off oil and they have means, they need to put their own money up and buy a tesla or leaf or other electric cars. Done already? Then if they have enough, they should buy some of their friends and staff electric cars too. THEY can help speed this along. Their bitching about carbon won’t do it. The same goes for solar, it’s getting much cheaper and in some places like Hawaii it makes more sense to do that than buy it from a utility. People need to focus on accelerating and developing technologies so that the cleaner options become CHEAPER for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/22 "2015-11-27T00:56:46Z")
> [@Salvor](#): > > I don’t want us to get off oil immediately. This is the fatal flaw with too many people in the environmental left. They want us to live in the gutter, walk/ride bikes for miles on end instead of use cars to get from A to B, or worse, take public transportation in LOS ANGELES !!! 😕 So all the talk from environmentalists supporting (some of them putting money where their mouths are) electric cars was a figment of our imagination? > [@Salvor](#): > > And they want that asap. I don’t. Actually after years of discussions it is clear that the ones that make propaganda against any changes have convinced you that many environmentalists want everyone to go cold turkey, not true and many plans only talk about incremental changes. > [@Salvor](#): > > I want us to work more heavily on making the cleaner forms of transportation like electric cars cheaper faster. If anyone wants us off oil and they have means, they need to put their own money up and buy a tesla or leaf or other electric cars. Done already? Then if they have enough, they should buy some of their friends and staff electric cars too. THEY can help speed this along. Their bitching about carbon won’t do it. The flaw in this silly tirade is that then it does mean that the ones who did so already should have more power to ask you to change too. I don’t think it is much logical since the biggest effect will be done once regulations and taxes for emissions are in place to control the biggest polluters, that include power plants. We should not forget that the ones that prevent that from taking place are the politicians from the right in this country put in power with a lot of help from the fossil fuel industry. > [@Salvor](#): > > The same goes for solar, it’s getting much cheaper and in some places like Hawaii it makes more sense to do that than buy it from a utility. People need to focus on accelerating and developing technologies so that the cleaner options become CHEAPER for everyone. I agree, but this also seems that is missing that the biggest enemy for this is the right that is following the dictates of fossil funded groups that tells local government to prevent that from happening. [http://fcir.org/2015/04/03/in-sunshine-state-big-energy-blocks-solar-power/](http://fcir.org/2015/04/03/in-sunshine-state-big-energy-blocks-solar-power/) > [@](#): > > **In Sunshine State, Big Energy Blocks Solar Power** > > Back when Dr. Paige Kreegel was a state representative in 2009, he had an idea that he thought simply made sense. Florida, the Sunshine State, should become a model for solar power. > > As chair of the state House’s Committee on Energy, Kreegel was in a position to change Florida laws that have restricted the growth of energy-producing rooftop solar panels on homes in Florida. As a self-described free-market Republican, Kreegel saw the issue as getting government out of the way of a growing industry. > > But Kreegel soon discovered that his fellow committee members wouldn’t even discuss solar energy, and the fact that he brought it up made him an outcast in Tallahassee. When he walked the halls of the Legislature, other lawmakers would turn around and shut their doors. > > “You know how Tallahassee has an in-group and an out-group?” said Kreegel, a physician in Punta Gorda who left the House in 2012. “I didn’t know I was on the outside until I went against the public utilities, and then — holy hell.” > > Kreegel isn’t alone. Other state lawmakers and lobbyists say that anyone who has attempted to expand the rooftop solar industry has been ostracized and seen their proposals go nowhere. The reason, some lawmakers say, is that Florida’s largest utility companies have invested heavily in state political campaigns to fend off competition from rooftop solar power. > [@](#): > > Even with the potential ballot initiative, lawmakers and rooftop solar power supporters say it could get tougher for the solar industry before it gets better. This year, the Legislature may consider new regulations that could cripple rooftop solar power in Florida. The new proposal would end net metering, which allows businesses and homeowners who have installed solar panels to sell excess electricity back to utility companies. Even if the ballot initiative passes, the loss of net metering would limit the growth of rooftop solar by removing the incentive of selling excess energy. > > The American Legislative Exchange Council, or ALEC, a conservative interest group, has drafted the legislation that would end net metering, increasing the cost of solar power and likely limiting the industry’s growth. Since 2009, former state Rep. Jimmy Patronis, a Republican from Panama City who is now on the regulatory board that oversees energy in Florida, has been listed as ALEC’s state chair. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/23 "2015-11-27T01:26:22Z")
> [@Salvor](#): > > The earth will be fine, we are not going to exterminate life on this planet by shifting the global mix of energy to cleaner sources over the next 50 years instead of the next 20. Of course the earth will be fine, we are f\*\*\*\*\*. We already hit 400 PPM in the content of CO2 in the atmosphere, at that level we already increased the probability that we will raise the temperature by 2 degrees a lot. Not working to seriously limit the increase will make that 2 degree increase likelihood in to a more certain thing. Not controlling this now means also that then we face the chances of even worse increases in CO2 concentrations and then more increases in temperature over 2 degrees Celsius and that means that much more hardships are going to come. And that is a related item that allows us to get back to the subject at hand. There are studies pointing that the unrest in Syria was caused in big part by the increase in temperature observed already. > **[New Study Says Climate Change Helped Spark Syrian Civil War](https://slate.com/technology/2015/03/study-climate-change-helped-spark-syrian-civil-war.html)** > > By now, it’s pretty clear that we’re starting to see visible manifestations of climate change beyond far-off melting ice sheets. One of the most... Shorter and in comic format: > **[Syria's climate-fueled conflict, in one stunning comic strip](https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/syria-climate-years-living-dangerously-symbolia/)** > > How climate change helped spark a bloody civil war. So, besides the Iraq invasion making a mess that also made ISIS possible, the climate is changing with a lot of our help and that helped DAESH to set shop too. There were then many items that could had prevented ISIS/DAECH from even becoming a force. However, regarding the OP, I have to say that changing to alternative energy may be an ultimate weapon against the money people in the middle east that funds groups like ISIS; but since an instant change to alternatives is not in the cards I do not see how that will be effective against terrorists, I have seen that the oil operations that are controlled by DAESH have been targets already and the terrorists have worked hard to make enemies of almost the whole world, so IMHO the so called Caliphate will be a memory way before we are making changes to our sources of energy. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/24 "2015-11-27T01:31:48Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The motivation of ISIL is the fundamental problem, not the particular route they get money. If oil revenues went away tomorrow, they’d accelerate ransoming civilians, maybe deal some meth, steal more stuff, whatever it takes to get more money. Don’t agree. They’d run out of steam. The whole benefit of oil is it takes the strain off a society. EROI. They’d be so busy trying to get everyone on meth they’d have no time and energy for fighting for Qatar. …I mean establishing the caliphate. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/25 "2015-11-27T01:38:35Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Don’t agree. They’d run out of steam. I don’t think you have a good grasp on where their revenues come from. [http://www.fpri.org/articles/2015/06/isil-revenues-grow-or-die](http://www.fpri.org/articles/2015/06/isil-revenues-grow-or-die) ---
**Author:** ![Salvor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Salvor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salvor)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/26 "2015-11-27T01:41:42Z")
We are not screwed. The worst that will happen with a delayed shift to cleaner technologies is a bit more adaptation needed. Human beings in our current form have persisted on this earth for tens of thousands of years. Survived ice ages, lack of antibiotics, deserts, forests, island locales, frozen hinterlands. This was before modern civilization when one of the more advanced techniques to keep from freezing was burning wood (far more carbon intensive per unit of heat btw compared to using natural gas for the same heating). We’ve also shifted from hunter gatherer to farmers to something beyond with the green revolution and not gmo crops (a GOOD thing). Human civilization is orders of magnitude more resilient than it ever has been. I am not worried about the future, I do not think we are f\*cked because we are still in better shape today and in the foreseeable decades than we were even a few hundred years ago, before man made climate change. People like to focus only on the detritus of mankind, but never the advancements and perks. They like to pretend that the human species is inflexible as their own imaginations, but we don’t need to be such pessimistic nihilists about the future. We will almost certainly be better off than worse off in another 50 years, even if we are slower at removing carbon than many environmentalists want. And the point about the people with means putting money where there mouth is, poor people on the margins can’t afford electric cars, or the limitations right now en masse. We need to have a laser focus on getting these technologies cheaper, and once we have that, THEN we can and should get more aggressive about phasing out older technologies (i.e. a tax on gasoline cars). But if you did that now, everyone would pay more money to get a car, including poorer people who can least afford it. It’s astonishingly regressive. And the point is it is needlessly so. Hold off on the wet dreams of the enviro left until we have equivalent alternatives that are at price parity, THEN put the screws on the dirtier stuff more heavily. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/27 "2015-11-27T02:00:27Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > I don’t think you have a good grasp on where their revenues come from. > > [http://www.fpri.org/articles/2015/06/isil-revenues-grow-or-die](http://www.fpri.org/articles/2015/06/isil-revenues-grow-or-die) CTRL-F search for Qatar yields nothing in that article. But it’s a military website, and therefore not free to print what it wants. If the captain says shut up about Qatar, they shut up about Qatar. [Other bits of the government aren’t so shy](http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/view/qatar-and-isis-funding-the-u.s.-approach) > **[Qatar and ISIS Funding: The U.S. Approach](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/qatar-and-isis-funding-us-approach)** > > Alarming ISIS gains in Iraq and Syria present a special opportunity for Washington to work with Qatar on enforcing counter-terrorist financing procedures. > [@](#): > > America views its close ally, Qatar, as a terrorist funding trouble spot. Washington has gone so far as to call the small Persian Gulf state a permissive environment for financing terrorist groups. > The United States says it does not have evidence that the government of Qatar is funding the terrorist group now known as the Islamic State (ISIS). But it does believe that private individuals in Qatar are helping to finance this group and others like it. And it thinks the Gulf state is not doing enough to stop this. > Qatar’s security strategy has been to provide support to a wide range of regional and international groups in order to bolster its position at home and abroad. This strategy has involved generously supporting Islamist organizations, including militant ones like Hamas and the Taliban. _ **Allowing private local fundraising for Islamist groups abroad forms part of this approach. Closing channels of support to militant Islamists – i.e., what Washington would like Doha to do – would be inimical** _ to Qatar’s basic approach to its own security. > **[Cameron challenges Qatar over links to ISIS](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2812782/Cameron-uses-Downing-Street-talks-challenge-Emir-Qatar-stop-flow-cash-ISIS.html)** > > The PM held talks with Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad Al Than amid increasing concerns over the wealthy Arab state's links to Islamic extremism and the deadly conditions its migrant labourers live in. [SIZE=2] > [@](#): > > David Cameron today challenged the Emir of Qatar to stop the flow of cash to ISIS - following bombshell allegations in Parliament that the country is ‘siphoning off’ funds meant for the World Cup to fund Islamic terror. [/SIZE]And maybe we can get a second opinion on oil smuggling ? > [@](#): > > BAGHDAD (AP) — The Islamic State [rakes in up to $50 million a month](http://uk.businessinsider.com/isis-making-50-million-a-month-from-oil-sales-2015-10?r=US&IR=T) from selling crude from oilfields under its control in Iraq and Syria, part of a well-run industry that U.S. diplomacy and airstrikes have so far failed to shut down, according to Iraqi intelligence and U.S. officials. > > Daniel Glaser, a U.S. Treasury official, estimated IS oil revenues at around $500 million a year, based on evidence they made around $40 million in one month in early 2015. Terrorism Center says ISIS got 100 million in all 2014 from oil. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/28 "2015-11-27T02:19:09Z")
Burying the lede, huh? Glossed right over the $20-50 billion in stolen military equipment, $500-800 million in stolen cash, and $100-300 million in kickbacks and no-show jobs. If I’m adding things up correctly, even your highest estimate of oil revenues constitutes 5% of its haul last year. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/29 "2015-11-27T02:23:56Z")
I read it all, you’re the one glossing over. And what would happen if I checked all their other figures ? Sorry I can’t see that as a reliable set of statistics, even other branches of government disagree with them. I won’t bother to check the rest - that’s your job if you care about accuracy. If not, pfff, we’ll see how the world turns out, won’t we ? ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/30 "2015-11-27T02:29:34Z")
Another thing they left out is the military gear handed to them by the FSA and al Nusra ‘defectors’. > [@](#): > > sources in Doha[estimating it has spent as much as $3bn](http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/too-late-the-sponsors-of-ideology-find-they-have-made-a-monster-9687723.html)in Syria alone – 70 military cargo flights were sent in the past two years – in an attempt to develop networks of loyalty among rebels and set the stage for Qatari influence in a post-Assad era. Three bill eh ? Wonder how much of that went to ISIS ? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/31 "2015-11-27T02:34:53Z")
> [@Salvor](#): > > We are not screwed. The worst that will happen with a delayed shift to cleaner technologies is a bit more adaptation needed. > > Human beings in our current form have persisted on this earth for tens of thousands of years. Survived ice ages, lack of antibiotics, deserts, forests, island locales, frozen hinterlands. This was before modern civilization when one of the more advanced techniques to keep from freezing was burning wood (far more carbon intensive per unit of heat btw compared to using natural gas for the same heating). We’ve also shifted from hunter gatherer to farmers to something beyond with the green revolution and not gmo crops (a GOOD thing). Human civilization is orders of magnitude more resilient than it ever has been. I am not worried about the future, I do not think we are f\*cked because we are still in better shape today and in the foreseeable decades than we were even a few hundred years ago, before man made climate change. > > People like to focus only on the detritus of mankind, but never the advancements and perks. All that only to miss the point, No, I’m not saying that we should drop civilization as we know it, in fact most of the serious proponents of change are not saying that. In fact we are going ‘to science the shit about it’. 🙂 [QUOTE] Some people say transitioning to clean energy will simply cost too much - "leave it to future generations." In Edinburgh, Scotland, Richard Alley explains that if we start soon the cost of the transformation could be similar to that which was paid for something none of us would want to do without - clean water and the modern sanitation system. [/QUOTE] I suspect that a lot of the propaganda from the right that denies even that the changes can be beneficial has gotten to you. BTW Richard alley is not a lefty environmentalist, he is still a Republican. > [@Salvor](#): > > But if you did that now, everyone would pay more money to get a car, including poorer people who can least afford it. It’s astonishingly regressive. And the point is it is needlessly so. Hold off on the wet dreams of the enviro left until we have equivalent alternatives that are at price parity, THEN put the screws on the dirtier stuff more heavily. Good thing I never proposed that, many times what the experts and I proposed was that big changes are kept at economical levels that all can afford it by involving government and industry. Talk about just waiting to see that the price of toilets was affordable to all and then making the big change was a non starter or did not lead to change until the sewers and water supply was organized and build. BTW you did skip how the issue affected Syria, just trying to keep this in focus. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/32 "2015-11-27T02:35:59Z")
**Mr. Q** – Why don’t you come up with your own cites for how much oil revenue constitutes of their overall assets. Plus, let’s not confuse “revenue” with “profits.” I’m eagerly awaiting your cites on how much other, non-oil revenue they have in order for you to prove your case. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/33 "2015-11-27T02:45:55Z")
Mr Raven, I did. And your own source was for revenues. If you thought it wasn’t then you have located a possible source of confusion. Go find a set of comprehensive income sources first, one that’s agreed on between your government departments, preferably cross referenced with other govs and orgs. Not for me, for yourself, because you need to have a proper picture of your world. It’s got to include all those things the CTC has, plus assets held over from previous state/private sponsorship as well as current streams, hand-overs from other jihad groups, oil, and anything else. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/34 "2015-11-27T02:50:27Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > **Mr. Q** – Why don’t you come up with your own cites for how much oil revenue constitutes of their overall assets. Plus, let’s not confuse “revenue” with “profits.” > > I’m eagerly awaiting your cites on how much other, non-oil revenue they have in order for you to prove your case. I agree that a lot of the revenue is not coming just from oil, but I have to mention that I did not imagine that the forces against ISIS have targeted oil tankers or processing units precisely to prevent the oil revenue from benefiting ISIS. > **[The US just destroyed 280 ISIS oil trucks](https://www.businessinsider.com/us-isis-oil-trucks-2015-11)** > > The US-led military coalition against ISIS has been rapidly increasing its pace of operations against militant targets in both Syria and Iraq. Point here is that if it was not important revenue then the installations would not had been targets otherwise. I do agree though on finding sources for the amount of revenue that ISIS is getting from oil. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/35 "2015-11-27T02:53:02Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Don’t agree. They’d run out of steam. The whole benefit of oil is it takes the strain off a society. EROI. They’d be so busy trying to get everyone on meth they’d have no time and energy for fighting for Qatar. …I mean establishing the caliphate. They get money from a number of sources besides oil. They are funded from donors, they get money from looting and selling antiquities in the areas they have taken over, they get money from smuggling and taxes, kidnapping and human trafficking (the sex slavery trade), and from selling captured military weapons and hardware. Granted, cutting off the oil trade would hurt them, but then we are currently interdicting their oil blackmarkets via air strikes and it hasn’t brought them to their knees (nor has the fact that there is a huge oil glut on the world market currently and the prices are pretty low). Since there isn’t any realistic way that we are going to do what the OP is suggesting and wholesale switch from an oil based system to one of electric cars and solar/wind it’s a moot point…unless we can completely interdict their black market sales via military means, which hasn’t happened yet, they will always get some revenue from this source. And if they couldn’t they would simply ramp up other means to get revenue as they have in the past. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/36 "2015-11-27T02:58:44Z")
Ah, CTC report June 2015 Updated intel July 2015 - oil revenue three times greater than previously thought. > **[ISIS Makes Three Times as Much from Oil Smuggling as Previously Thought:...](https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/isis-makes-three-times-much-oil-smuggling-previously-thought-officials-n397836)** > > "The more time on target, the better the estimate,” a senior U.S. official told NBC News. More than three times if you compare 100 million per year with 50 million per month. > [@](#): > > ISIS also continues to use traditional gangland-style methods to raise money: extortion, robbery and ransom. But as one U.S. counter terrorism official put it, “those are ‘mature’,” meaning ISIS has wrung about as much as they can from them. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/37 "2015-11-27T02:59:28Z")
> [@MrQwertyasd](#): > > Mr Raven, I did. And your own source was for revenues. If you thought it wasn’t then you have located a possible source of confusion. > Go find a set of comprehensive income sources first, one that’s agreed on between your government departments, preferably cross referenced with other govs and orgs. Not for me, for yourself, because you need to have a proper picture of your world. It’s got to include all those things the CTC has, plus assets held over from previous state/private sponsorship as well as current streams, hand-overs from other jihad groups, oil, and anything else. I’m not trying to be obtuse - which cite are you talking about where you presented a comprehensive estimate of revenues? I’m just not finding it. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/38 "2015-11-27T03:01:49Z")
> [@XT](#): > > They get money from a number of sources besides oil. They are funded from donors, they get money from looting and selling antiquities in the areas they have taken over, they get money from smuggling and taxes, kidnapping and human trafficking (the sex slavery trade), and from selling captured military weapons and hardware. Granted, cutting off the oil trade would hurt them, but then we are currently interdicting their oil blackmarkets via air strikes and it hasn’t brought them to their knees (nor has the fact that there is a huge oil glut on the world market currently and the prices are pretty low). Since there isn’t any realistic way that we are going to do what the OP is suggesting and wholesale switch from an oil based system to one of electric cars and solar/wind it’s a moot point…unless we can completely interdict their black market sales via military means, which hasn’t happened yet, they will always get some revenue from this source. And if they couldn’t they would simply ramp up other means to get revenue as they have in the past. They’ve lost an enormous amount of tankers. Something like 500 recently between Russian and NATO strikes. Only so many trucks in the world, I would think burny things like oil won’t last long when attacked by explody things like bombs. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/39 "2015-11-27T03:02:42Z")
> [@XT](#): > > They get money from a number of sources besides oil. They are funded from donors, they get money from looting and selling antiquities in the areas they have taken over, they get money from smuggling and taxes, kidnapping and human trafficking (the sex slavery trade), and from selling captured military weapons and hardware. Granted, cutting off the oil trade would hurt them, but then we are currently interdicting their oil blackmarkets via air strikes and it hasn’t brought them to their knees (nor has the fact that there is a huge oil glut on the world market currently and the prices are pretty low). Since there isn’t any realistic way that we are going to do what the OP is suggesting and wholesale switch from an oil based system to one of electric cars and solar/wind it’s a moot point…unless we can completely interdict their black market sales via military means, which hasn’t happened yet, they will always get some revenue from this source. And if they couldn’t they would simply ramp up other means to get revenue as they have in the past. I agree with this mostly, the nit is in the part about “it hasn’t brought them to their knees” AFAIK, the latest news in the field for DAESH is bad, with Kurdish and Iraqi forces expelling them from cities. IIUC DAESH is relying on younger and younger recruits, and it seems to me that no amount of money can make an effective fighting force when they are being decimated. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2015, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643/40 "2015-11-27T03:04:00Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not trying to be obtuse - which cite are you talking about where you presented a comprehensive estimate of revenues? I’m just not finding it. Treasury guy Danny Glaser. There’s a department for it, that’s him there. > **[Front page | U.S. Department of the Treasury](https://home.treasury.gov/)** > > U.S. Department of the Treasury > [@](#): > > BAGHDAD (AP) — The Islamic State [rakes in up to $50 million a month](http://uk.businessinsider.com/isis-making-50-million-a-month-from-oil-sales-2015-10?r=US&IR=T) from selling crude from oilfields under its control in Iraq and Syria, part of a well-run industry that U.S. diplomacy and airstrikes have so far failed to shut down, according to Iraqi intelligence and U.S. officials. > > Daniel Glaser, a U.S. Treasury official, estimated IS oil revenues at around $500 million a year, based on evidence they made around $40 million in one month in early 2015. It does look like that’s based on a good month, but it’s still a lot. > [@](#): > > Speaking at a security conference in Aspen on Thursday, Daniel Glaser, assistant secretary of treasury for terrorist financing, said oil smuggling has been extremely lucrative for ISIS. > “There’s been a lot of numbers thrown out and all the numbers are soft,” Glaser said. “But I can say in a one-month period earlier this year, ISIL (ISIS) made about $40 million in one month off of the sale of oil. So if you want to extrapolate that out, you can get to about $500 million in the course a year, and this is all internally generated.” > But a senior counter-terrorism official said coalition airstrikes have reduced ISIS’s income from that $40 million dollar monthly high point. > “Yes, they made 40 million in a month when they were more or less unrestrained. Before the airstrikes, or in the early days of the airstrikes. In the early days, we were striking for humanitarian purposes, to save the Yazidi people (from ISIS) in the Sinjar mountains. After that, we started bombing the ISIS infrastructure, which put constraints on their ability to move, their ability to sell,” the official said. But it’s smuggling, and therefore secretive, so I wouldn’t expect any final figure yet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-alternative-energy-be-the-ultimate-weapon-against-isis/738643.md?page=3)