# Would America have been better off never learning about Watergate? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 22, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609 "2012-04-22T18:10:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609/21 "2012-04-24T17:46:36Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 It set expose-the-wrongs-of-the-mighty as the ultimate career-achievement prize dangling before every American journalist’s eyes. That’s a **good** thing. No it made journalists want to be crusaders instead of reporters, because the myth is that they brought down Nixon it brought a lot of people into the profession because they wanted to influence politics. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609/22 "2012-04-24T19:25:19Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > My idea is that since government distrust started spreading during Watergate, local governments of certain states began digging in their heels and throwing their weight behind one political party or the other, and both political parties started to having to pander to the whole “government is a big problem in our country and needs to be reduced as much as possible.” I think there are two different types of government distrust. T and the right distrust formed by Regan and Gingrich, (with a little bit of McCarthyism thrown in). he left distrust informed by Watergate and Vietnam, isn’t actually that opposed to big government but want to make sure that it is transparent, uncorrupt, and not overly influenced by rich and powerful business people. They also mistrust nationalism and view the United States as a flawed in many ways. They also have a general dislike for nationalism as they see many flaws in the current system. These are represented by such groups as the Occupy Wallstreet, Wikileaks, Annonymous, and 9/11 conspirators. The right distrust of government distrust formed by Regan and Gingrich, (with a little bit of McCarthyism thrown in). It is opposed to government meddling in their lives. But has a strong sense of a strong sense of nationalism, such that they view 'True Americans" as being superior to the rest of the world. They want lower taxes, the ability to discriminate as they choose, and punishment for those they deem as unworthy. Ever since St. Ron was elected they view themselves as the true voice of America and whenever they lose the presidency they freak out in the next election since they view the liberals as basically unamerican. The Tea Party is from this branch form of mind. I doubt that it was influenced at all by Watergate, and probably think that we shouldn’t have quit so easily in Vietnam. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609/23 "2012-04-24T19:36:58Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > No it made journalists want to be crusaders instead of reporters, because the myth is that they brought down Nixon it brought a lot of people into the profession because they wanted to influence politics. Crusading journalism is a **good** thing. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609/24 "2012-04-25T02:26:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Crusading journalism is a **good** thing. Crusading journalism is a good thing when there’s a cause worth crusading for. But too many journalists are just crusading to advance their own careers. They’re going after politicians just because they’re in office rather than because they’ve done anything significantly wrong. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609/25 "2012-04-25T02:38:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Crusading journalism is a good thing when there’s a cause worth crusading for. But too many journalists are just crusading to advance their own careers. They’re going after politicians just because they’re in office rather than because they’ve done anything significantly wrong. Eh. I’m usually on the side of people who kick over rocks. If the politicians don’t want people to see them doing sordid things, whether those involve sex or corruption, they shouldn’t be doing those things while in office instead of trying to make sure the rock-kickers get punished instead of lauded. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609/26 "2012-04-25T03:07:56Z")
I loved it when crusading journalist Geraldo Rivera went after the evil Al Capone’s vault. And more recently, he’s warned us all of the deadly dangers of hoodies. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609/27 "2012-04-25T03:18:21Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > I loved it when crusading journalist Geraldo Rivera went after the evil Al Capone’s vault. > > And more recently, he’s warned us all of the deadly dangers of hoodies. 😛 I think you are confusing “crusading” journalism with “going medieval” journalism. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609/28 "2012-04-25T03:50:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Crusading journalism is a good thing when there’s a cause worth crusading for. But too many journalists are just crusading to advance their own careers. They’re going after politicians just because they’re in office rather than because they’ve done anything significantly wrong. Right! And that ignoble circumstance keeps a constant (if not too heavy) pressure to be honest on all of the politicians all of the time! Isn’t that how it should be?! Look at the results – America don’t score **too** bad on the [Corruption Perceptions Index.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index) (Imagine if they’d had that in Boss Tweed’s time . . .) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609/29 "2012-04-25T05:20:28Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Right! And that ignoble circumstance keeps a constant (if not too heavy) pressure to be honest on all of the politicians all of the time! Isn’t that how it should be?! Look at the results – America don’t score **too** bad on the [Corruption Perceptions Index.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index) (Imagine if they’d had that in Boss Tweed’s time . . .) Do you feel the Monica Lewinsky scandal made American government better? Because that’s the kind of crusading most journalists prefer; cheap and sensational. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609/30 "2012-04-25T09:47:43Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Watergate also established the important precedent that the President is not above the law. Except President Gerald Ford still had the power to determine that Reagan wasn’t subject to the law. > [@Lippy48](#): > > CIA introducing crack cocaine I’m sure there have been distortions of the general concept, but cocaine did arrive in the US on [CIA planes](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_and_Contras_cocaine_trafficking_in_the_US). Edit: Oh and I don’t promote ignorance as a solution in essentially any scenario. Foregoing knowledge of Watergate wouldn’t change the government’s involvement in COINTELPRO, for example. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609/31 "2012-04-25T11:37:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Do you feel the Monica Lewinsky scandal made American government better? Not necessarily. But I DO think Clinton was an idiot for not keeping it in his pants knowing the Republicans were beating the bushes like the world’s most motivated pack of Elmer Fudds hunting wabbits with his name on them. And I think Rep. Weiner was an idiot. And Gov. Spitzer. And John Edwards. And Gary Hart. No, none of them did anything to break the public trust, as far as that goes, but they were all stupid for inviting the possibility of public embarrassment on both them and their party. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609/32 "2012-04-25T11:43:18Z")
I’m not sure, but Watergate was a meal ticket for Woodward and Bernstein-these guys seem to have done nothing but work it since 1976. Its part of history-how many people remember the “XYZ Affair”? or the Yazoo River Fraud-or Credit Mobilier…or Teapot Dome. As long as humans are human, there will be corruption. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609/33 "2012-04-25T12:51:05Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Not necessarily. But I DO think Clinton was an idiot for not keeping it in his pants knowing the Republicans were beating the bushes like the world’s most motivated pack of Elmer Fudds hunting wabbits with his name on them. And I think Rep. Weiner was an idiot. And Gov. Spitzer. And John Edwards. And Gary Hart. > > No, none of them did anything to break the public trust, as far as that goes, but they were all stupid for inviting the possibility of public embarrassment on both them and their party. Put another way: The America where those politicians got caught in their peccadilloes is better than an America where they got away with them clean (because in 1972 the janitor in the Watergate Hotel never spotted the taped-open lock on the DNC office). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609/34 "2012-04-25T16:40:24Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > because in 1972 the janitor in the Watergate Hotel never spotted the taped-open lock on the DNC office A nitpick, but [Frank Wills](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Wills_(security_guard)) was a security guard not a janitor. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609/35 "2012-04-25T16:45:23Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > I’m not sure, but Watergate was a meal ticket for Woodward and Bernstein-these guys seem to have done nothing but work it since 1976. > Its part of history-how many people remember the “XYZ Affair”? or the Yazoo River Fraud-or Credit Mobilier..or Teapot Dome. > As long as humans are human, there will be corruption. Watergate was a different kind of corruption than the other examples you listed. They were all politicians making money off their office - which is certainly a bad thing. But Watergate was a politician trying to subvert the election process and that’s a much worse thing. A politician stealing power is much more dangerous than a politician stealing money. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2012, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609/36 "2012-04-25T21:32:53Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Its part of history-how many people remember the “XYZ Affair”? or the Yazoo River Fraud-or Credit Mobilier..or Teapot Dome. Everybody who used _The American Pageant_ as their HS U.S. history text, I should hope. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609/37 "2012-04-26T18:25:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Everybody who used _The American Pageant_ as their HS U.S. history text, I should hope. Not me! I had “The American Spectacle”-by Krok and Loon (“Smock, smock”)!😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-america-have-been-better-off-never-learning-about-watergate/619609.md?page=1)