# Would American forefathers want us to overthrow the government?

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-american-forefathers-want-us-to-overthrow-the-government/289228>\
**Category:** Great Debates\
**Created:** [February 9, 2005, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-american-forefathers-want-us-to-overthrow-the-government/289228 "2005-02-09T17:40:25Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 3\
**Page:** 6

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**Author:** ![Vshepherd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f475e1/32.png) [@Vshepherd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vshepherd)\
**Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-american-forefathers-want-us-to-overthrow-the-government/289228/101 "2005-12-06T04:24:38Z")

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> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> Historically speaking, that is too obvious a fact even to mention.
> 
> If that were true, why would it be a problem?
> 
> 😕 Are you talking about the possibility of a situation where one party controls Congress and the other party controls the presidency? We’ve been through that circumstance many, many times and it has never made the presidency completely ineffectual.
> 
> 😕😕 Why is that a problem at all?

The key word in your reply was “completely”.

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**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\
**Post date:** [December 6, 2005, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-american-forefathers-want-us-to-overthrow-the-government/289228/102 "2005-12-06T04:27:36Z")

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> [@Vshepherd](#):
>
> We have more oil beneath the surface of Alaska then all of the other oil producing countries in the world combined.

Cite?

> [@Vshepherd](#):
>
> Protesters would not protest and perhaps end up becoming terrorists.

Cite? (For protest being a proven gateway to terrorism.)

> [@Vshepherd](#):
>
> Protesters would not bother to protest if they couldn’t get press and media coverage.

There was such thing as public protest even before the newspaper was invented. Though of course mass media produce more favorable circumstances. But, again, **why is that a problem?** Concerned citizens with a message to get out have the option of staging public demonstrations, the media both cover and encourage them, their message enters into the stream of public debate – why is any of that bad for our polity or society?

> [@Vshepherd](#):
>
> Criminals, including those who drive illegally on our hiways and kill many more innocent people then the wars ever kill

Cite? (For crime-related fatalities being more numerous than war-related fatalities. And whatever figures you cite, be sure to explain how you’re making them commensurable.)

> [@Vshepherd](#):
>
> . . . would not do the terrible things they do if the punishment fit the crime.

Plenty of countries have much harsher criminal justice systems than ours. Cite for their crime rates being significantly lower?

> [@Vshepherd](#):
>
> That only shows that FDR was smarter than our leaders today.

What has FDR to do with any of this?

And what does anything you’ve said in this thread have to do with the topic (circumstances under which overthrowing our government would or would not be justified/appropriate/what the Founders would have wanted)?

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**Author:** ![Vshepherd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f475e1/32.png) [@Vshepherd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vshepherd)\
**Post date:** [December 7, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-american-forefathers-want-us-to-overthrow-the-government/289228/103 "2005-12-07T02:12:24Z")

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> [@tomndebb](#):
>
> Simply false. It would be interesting to know why you believe this to be the case. (And, of course, if it is true and you are exposing some grand government conspiracy to hide it, it is the First Amendment against which you are railing that is keeping you out of prison.)
> 
> As to the rest of your rant, I will be happy to move it to the **BBQ Pit** if you’d like. I seriously doubt that you will be able to sustain a genuine debate on the topic.

I guess I hurt some feelings. Sorry about that, but facts are facts and the truth will out. Good-bye.

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