# Would an infallible lie detector be a boon or a curse for humanity? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801 "2014-12-21T04:30:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/21 "2014-12-21T14:30:27Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I have to wonder if it could ever be totally infallible. Imagine that such devices eventually became small, inexpensive, and easy to use. > [@Gozu](#): > > Would an **infallible lie detector** be a boon or a curse for humanity? > [@running coach](#): > > Will it be the size of a marker and available in every store or the size of a cargo van and confined to the legal system? > [@Gozu](#): > > The first one. Well, that’s what the thread’s all about… I think this would be horrible. If they became as common as car alarm keyfobs, it would change every social interaction we’ve got. Imagine a priest giving a sermon with five or six people in the audience using these things on him… “Nope. Nope. Yep, he believes that. Nope.” Or a teacher, or people on a date, or kids talking to each other in school… It would change everything. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/22 "2014-12-21T14:46:54Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It would have interesting effects on authoritarian regimes. The ones that depend on fear to stay in power would be faced with a quandary; what do you do when you use this super lie detector to detect who is loyal - and the answer is “virtually no one”? Unfortunately, a lot of people are loyal to dictatorial regimes… ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/23 "2014-12-21T15:04:12Z")
Job interviewers wouldn’t bother to ask you for your Facebook password, they’d go straight to the electrodes. The private detective market would dry up, suspicious spouses would just down with an ultimatum. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/24 "2014-12-21T16:19:22Z")
> [@ultrafilter](#): > > How would it react to “This statement is a lie”? [This way.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzVxsYzXI_Y) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/25 "2014-12-21T16:37:11Z")
[Or possibly like this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1pWCkW95W0) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/26 "2014-12-21T17:14:07Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > It’s going to depend on how portable it is and how widespread. Will it be the size of a marker and available in every store or the size of a cargo van and confined to the legal system? > [@Gozu](#): > > The first one. Then this technology and the documentation thereof must be destroyed, its creators and their collaborators discredited, disparaged and finally eliminated, and those who know the details of the operation get a change of identities and “disappear”. :D:cool: No, but seriously, it has been mentioned… > [@](#): > > The trouble is that so many statements “X” are actually “I believe X”, with the first two words elided. > > And, of course, since a lie detecting machine cannot judge objective reality outside of the person it’s examining… > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, for purposes of ordinary civil cases, it would be a huge boon, and would also be useful for many criminal trials. It would give a huge benefit to the defense position of “not guilty by reason of actual innocence.” If you could prove your innocence, the D.A. isn’t likely to waste his time pressing charges. > > It would eliminate the old gridlock of “it’s my word versus his.” > [@](#): > > It would be amusing to see what happened when two people were marked as telling the truth on two statements that are wholly contradictory. > > Honestly, would this thing even have any effect given how adept people are at believing that things that are wrong are actually right and how notoriously poor people are at being eyewitnesses? And further, let’s remember how “the court of public opinion” tends to disregard nuance – the presumption by a huge part of the public would indeed be that the entirety of any investigation would have to be nothing more than “did you or didn’t you” any more. Or that it must be impossible for both parties to be sincerely convinced of their truth. Eventually a lot of the public would conclude from all this that since it’s not that simple, therefore this technology is a BS piece of trash that leaves you in JAQ mode anyway. > [@](#): > > ``` > You would have to change some laws, before you get to ask me a single question as a suspect my lawyer is going to use it on the police, the detectives, and the prosecutor to make sure they actually have a valid reason for asking me any questions at all...not to mention that whole 5th amendment thing. > > ``` Right: _“Are you really interrogating me about this because you have cause for it? Or are you just out fishing? Can I just walk away from here without saying another word, or not?”_ That could create some nasty upfront confrontations. Of course it could be interesting to have it applied in some cases in the civil realm: _“Whenever termination of an employee is carried out, all officials of the employer participating in the decision shall submit to Truthpuller System interview to assert that they did not act based on any of the causes outlawed by [citation of acts that forbid various forms of wrongful termination]”_. See how much support you get for THAT… ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2014, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/27 "2014-12-21T23:29:45Z")
This concept was explored quite well in a novel called “The Truth Machine”. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/28 "2014-12-22T00:48:49Z")
Honey, does this dress make me look fat? No Green light comes on (thank gawd for technology and grammatical precision) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/29 "2014-12-22T01:28:11Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > This concept was explored quite well in a novel called “The Truth Machine”. Also (even though it is a comedy) the Episode “Justice” from Red Dwarf finds Rimmer condemning himself for a crime that he did not commit, because of a mind prove by the Justice World. As other posters noticed, there are many cases (in reality and in fiction) when human memory is demonstrated to not be a very reliable thing. > **[Justice (Red Dwarf)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_%28Red_Dwarf%29)** > > "Justice" is the third episode of science fiction sitcom Red Dwarf Series IV and the twenty-first episode in the series run. It was first broadcast on the British television channel BBC2 on 28 February 1991; although it was planned to be broadcast as the second episode, it was moved back in the schedule by the BBC. Written by Rob Grant and Doug Naylor, and directed by Ed Bye, the episode features the crew's visit to a high-tech prison where Rimmer is charged with the death of the Red Dwa Whilst... > [@](#): > > On arriving at Justice World the Justice Computer scans the crews’ minds for signs of guilt, causing Lister worry as in his youth he committed petty offences like stealing beds from hotels, but the Justice Computer decides that Lister’s crimes are not serious enough to warrant punishment. > > Rimmer on the other hand is convicted of 1,167 counts of second-degree murder, a consequence of his faulty drive-plate repair that killed the crew of Red Dwarf, and sentenced to nearly 10,000 years’ imprisonment. Kryten proves to the Justice computer Judge that Rimmer’s immense guilt stems from his own inflated sense of importance. A man as incompetent and insignificant as Rimmer, he argues, would never be given tasks that might put the whole crew in danger. Rimmer, although deeply offended, and despite objecting to his own defence on many occasions (which Kryten uses as an example of his stupidity), is found not guilty, and is therefore free to go.[5] **Kryten:** “Who would allow this man, this joke of a man, this man who could not outwit a used tea bag, to be in a position where he might endanger the entire crew? Who? Only a yoghurt. This man is not guilty of manslaughter, he is only guilty of being Arnold J. Rimmer. That is his crime; it is also his punishment. The defence rests.” ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/30 "2014-12-22T02:41:30Z")
Depends on the roll-out. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/31 "2014-12-22T02:53:53Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Well, torture\* would become completely effective. More efficient, too, depending on how creative you are or how sensitive the machine is… > > “Does the courier’s name start with the letter ‘A’? If ‘yes,’ scream.” . . . If the truth or falsehood of non-verbal responses can as well be judged as well as words, no torture is necessary. Just say that silence will be interpreted as yes, and then ask about the letter A. As for the OP question, deception is tied so deeply into human nature that people might barely be people any more if lies could be infallibly detected. Being put in a situation where, say, the other person’s cell phone beeps after each lie would be extremely stressful. This is because lying is common, and yet extremely socially unacceptable. Stress would also be greater because no one could ever be trusted with a secret. Distrust would skyrocket. I almost think that living under such constant stress would change human nature – perhaps to the point where the completely effective machine ceased to be so. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 10:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/32 "2014-12-22T10:52:39Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > If the truth or falsehood of non-verbal responses can as well be judged as well as words, no torture is necessary. Just say that silence will be interpreted as yes, and then ask about the letter A. Obviously, and I _did_ note so in my post. But, also, as I noted, not _nearly_ as entertaining as hooking someone up to the combination Electric Chair/Educated Egg Detector (Patent Applied For). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 11:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/33 "2014-12-22T11:04:06Z")
What about the mentally ill or delusional? “Are you Napoleon?” “Yes” “Uh…huh sir he is telling the truth!” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/34 "2014-12-22T11:05:39Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > If the truth or falsehood of non-verbal responses can as well be judged as well as words, no torture is necessary. Just say that silence will be interpreted as yes, and then ask about the letter A. I daresay Aaron A. Aaronson is going to get arrested a lot. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/35 "2014-12-22T11:41:14Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Eventually a lot of the public would conclude from all this that since it’s not that simple, therefore this technology is a BS piece of trash that leaves you in JAQ mode anyway. I don’t understand this use of “JAQ.” ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/36 "2014-12-22T15:36:40Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > I don’t understand this use of “JAQ.” The public, upon being confronted that the technology is NOT magical to fight crime and resolve civil disputes infallibly (for various reasons mentioned already), will come to see it as a device that empowers others to come up to you “Just Asking Questions” on fishing expeditions. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/37 "2014-12-22T16:54:56Z")
Seems like people complain about dishonesty in society, but don’t want transparency. ---
**Author:** ![Gozu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gozu/32/6615_2.png) [@Gozu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gozu)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/38 "2014-12-22T18:02:20Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > As for the OP question, deception is tied so deeply into human nature that people might barely be people any more if lies could be infallibly detected. > > lying is common, and yet extremely socially unacceptable. Stress would also be greater because no one could ever be trusted with a secret. Distrust would skyrocket. I almost think that living under such constant stress would **change human nature** – perhaps to the point where the completely effective machine ceased to be so. Ah yes, but will it really change human nature? Human nature cannot change, by definition. It would definitely change human society, we’d have to adapt and the change would be traumatic for sure. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/39 "2014-12-22T18:38:59Z")
Standard American speech has a lot of hyperbole. The machine would have to parse statements like “this is the best sandwich ever!” It’s unlikely it’s the best one of your life, but you do actually like it a lot. “Was it good for you too?” “Of course honey.” Bzznt. One of the main points of lying is to avoid looking like an asshole. So people would have to deal with most people they know being assholes, or people would self-select and filter into groups where everyones agree with each other. I think it’d be considered rude to use the machine in everyday situations, like when Jimbo is regaling everyone with his fishing story or Lindsey is talking about how the hot bartender was totally hitting on her. There would be a faction of people fighting for it to be normalized in all situations, especially people on the autism spectrum and people not good at reading social cues, sarcasm, etc. If it became accepted for everyday conversations then maybe human interaction would become more robotic, or people would avoid asking questions that invite lies. Fiction writing would be way harder. Writers would have to invent reasons why it can’t be used, like with cell phones. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801/40 "2014-12-22T19:43:13Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Fiction writing would be way harder. Writers would have to invent reasons why it can’t be used, like with cell phones. I do remember that in the TV series of Robocop they had a way to detect lies by a computerized speech analyzer. The way the writers found a way around it was to have in one occasion a professional politician involved in a case. The machine reported that it could not be certain if the politician was telling the truth or not! Because the speech and phrases of the politician were by design made to be as ambiguous as possible. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-an-infallible-lie-detector-be-a-boon-or-a-curse-for-humanity/707801.md?page=3)