# Would Cervaise's telemarketer rant be allowed in the pit? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [February 26, 2009, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544 "2009-02-26T19:24:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/21 "2009-02-27T19:04:08Z")
Why? ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/22 "2009-02-27T19:06:54Z")
Thank you for coming in to clarify, **Ed**. ---
**Author:** ![Borborygmi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/borborygmi/32/217_2.png) [@Borborygmi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Borborygmi)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/23 "2009-02-27T19:15:04Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Why? Why… do I think the new rules could not otherwise be discussed? Well, admittedly that may be a slight overstatement, but the rant is considered a classic. It’s well-known, and I and I assume others consider it a quintessential Pitting of a fellow poster. It would seem to contain much that both approaches “the line” and crosses it, so as to serve as an example when discussing these new rules. Finally, as it is often held up as one of the all-time great posts, **Ed** ’s response here allows us to know that he is standing by his new rules, even now that he’s reviewed a very popular rules-breaking counterexample. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![rivulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rivulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rivulus)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/24 "2009-02-27T19:29:54Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > Yes, of course this thread would be allowed. It’s a rant. Rants are what the Pit is for. I see where Cervaise calls her a cunt a couple times. We would probably have edited this out and asked that in the future he refrain from directing this expression at other posters. Shithead, however, is in the same league as bitch and asshole and is OK, provided it’s not used to excess. There’s a bit about eyeballs and grapefruit spoons, which is pretty graphic, but it’s part of an absurdist hypothetical; he’s not wishing this on her. (If he did wish this on her, we’d certainly object to that.) Likewise the part about getting beaten to death with a jack handle. The bit about sucking on syphilitic donkey cocks … no getting around it, that’s an obscene remark directed at another poster. It’s also so purposely ridiculous that even the target probably laughed; that takes out a lot of the sting. So we probably would have said: Cervaise, that was a bad, bad thing to say. Don’t do that again. Thanks for the response. But with such a labyrinthian analysis, how on earth are current posters supposed to know what passes muster and what doesn’t? Bad Cunt Sucking on syphilitic donkey cocks OK Shithead Bitch Asshole (really?) Creative pass Eyeballs and grapefruit spoons Getting beaten to death with a jack handle Yeah, this rating system is as clear as mud. Og help us all. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/25 "2009-02-27T19:30:49Z")
> [@Borborygmi](#): > > Finally, as it is often held up as one of the all-time great posts, **Ed** ’s response here allows us to know that he is standing by his new rules, even now that he’s reviewed a very popular rules-breaking counterexample. YMMV. I didn’t see standing by the new rules. I saw exception after exception after winking reprimand. As a guess, if you’re one of the cool kids, you’d post that rant and get a mild finger wagging. If you’re one of the hated kids, you’d get banned. ---
**Author:** ![cards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecd19e/32.png) [@cards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cards)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/26 "2009-02-27T19:53:56Z")
Thanks for replying Ed. I’ll have to see how this plays out in practice, but I must say I’m more than a little dubious. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/27 "2009-02-27T21:31:02Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > So we probably would have said: Cervaise, that was a bad, bad thing to say. Don’t do that again. And your vision of this message board doesn’t allow for OPs like Cervaise’s ? I mean, your rules should allow for those things which make this message board worthwhile. If the heights of it (and I think that the general consensus amongst the board is that Cervaise’s post is about as good as the Pit gets) are on the wrong side of acceptable, doesn’t that say something about your level of acceptability? And if not Cervaise’sOP, then what sort of Pit post would you say is the apex of the pit? What should we aspire to with our rants? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/28 "2009-02-27T21:53:30Z")
Ed is doing a valiant job in trying to make it clear what’s in and what’s out but I think most members, including myself, are still seeing this as through a glass darkly. And that’s almost inevitable: things won’t come into focus until staff and members have had a chance to try on the rules for size in the coming months. I don’t envy the mods their task, but I’m sure things will eventually settle down and the Pit will continue to thrive, give or take a few female genitalia. But then I’ve always been an optimist. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/29 "2009-02-28T01:33:42Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > We would probably have edited this out … Excuse me? One of the few things that was drummed into me as Gospel when I was a mod was “DON’T EDIT”. Delete, move, close, note, warn - whatever, but DON’T EDIT. Is the editing of posts to be expected now, because I’d prefer not; I’d rather that the actions listed in my penultimate sentence take place. ---
**Author:** ![slime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@slime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slime)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/30 "2009-02-28T01:48:23Z")
OMFNESB-(oh my fucking non-existent supreme being). That is the greatest rant I have ever read. If this isn’t allowed in the pit as is word for wordwhy have the pit? I’ve yet to post in the pit but it does make for very enjoyable reading on a slow day ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/31 "2009-02-28T01:52:25Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Excuse me? One of the few things that was drummed into me as Gospel when I was a mod was “DON’T EDIT”. Delete, move, close, note, warn - whatever, but DON’T EDIT. > > Is the editing of posts to be expected now, because I’d prefer not; I’d rather that the actions listed in my penultimate sentence take place. I, for one, agree. I’d much rather just have a thread or post of mine ‘disappeared’ than have it be censored, left to say something I hadn’t intended. ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/32 "2009-02-28T02:02:27Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Excuse me? One of the few things that was drummed into me as Gospel when I was a mod was “DON’T EDIT”. Delete, move, close, note, warn - whatever, but DON’T EDIT. > > Is the editing of posts to be expected now, because I’d prefer not; I’d rather that the actions listed in my penultimate sentence take place. When you were modding, Frank, the law (the Communications Decency Act? the name escapes me) was new and untested and I didn’t want to take the chance that if mods edited, this would make us responsible for content. There have now been numerous court cases and the law getting us off the hook has been upheld. So at the mod meeting this summer we decided editing was OK, it was just a pain in the neck. I aqree with you, I don’t want to get into editing posts; I think the emerging consensus on the Bad Words list discussed elsewhere on this forum gives us a way to avoid having to do this. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/33 "2009-02-28T02:08:31Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > When you were modding, Frank, the law (the Communications Decency Act? the name escapes me) was new and untested and I didn’t want to take the chance that if mods edited, this would make us responsible for content. There have now been numerous court cases and the law getting us off the hook has been upheld. So at the mod meeting this summer we decided editing was OK, it was just a pain in the neck. I aqree with you, I don’t want to get into editing posts; I think the emerging consensus on the Bad Words list discussed elsewhere on this forum gives us a way to avoid having to do this. An open answer, Ed - and, thank you - but, quite frankly, this worries me. I would, as a poster, prefer that editing not be unilateral. Also, how would editing by the SDMB affect the shared copyright of the SDMB and the poster? ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/34 "2009-02-28T02:32:36Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > An open answer, Ed - and, thank you - but, quite frankly, this worries me. I would, as a poster, prefer that editing not be unilateral. > > Also, how would editing by the SDMB affect the shared copyright of the SDMB and the poster? Well, that’s what I’m saying. Nobody really wants to get into editing posts. Never mind the legalities, it’s just a pain. What we’re going to wind up with is a short list of words and expressions that you (a) shouldn’t direct at other posters or (b) put in thread titles. As long as everybody goes by the list, then we’re OK. Gfactor is going to put together the list over the weekend. We can argue about what’s OK and what’s not, and the list will undoubtedly be revised over time, but a consensus having been arrived at, then that’s the rule. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/35 "2009-02-28T05:41:10Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > (I just read a Pit thread by someone complaining that their computer fan is too loud and it made me sad. Kind of like watching Muhammed Ali get held down and bitch-slapped by a girl scout.) A question, **Giraffe** , if you will. There were probably hundreds of threads like that in the Pit while you were a mod. Why weren’t they moved or closed? One in particular I remember, shortly before your resignation, was some guy pitting _the sandwich he had for lunch._ What gives? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/36 "2009-02-28T06:12:34Z")
> [@Ed\_Zotti](#): > > Well, that’s what I’m saying. Nobody really wants to get into editing posts. Never mind the legalities, it’s just a pain. What we’re going to wind up with is a short list of words and expressions that you (a) shouldn’t direct at other posters or (b) put in thread titles. As long as everybody goes by the list, then we’re OK. Gfactor is going to put together the list over the weekend. We can argue about what’s OK and what’s not, and the list will undoubtedly be revised over time, but a consensus having been arrived at, then that’s the rule. What are the legalities that are forcing you into this position? How is allowing someone calling another poster an asshole legally different to telling them to fuck off? Would it be possible to have a list of words (like the one you mention compiling) that were censored to unregistered posters, without giving you lot legal headaches? ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/37 "2009-02-28T06:29:48Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > One in particular I remember, shortly before your resignation, was some guy pitting _the sandwich he had for lunch._ > > What gives? To be fair… it was a pretty bad sandwich. ---
**Author:** ![spinky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@spinky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spinky)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/38 "2009-02-28T06:30:28Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > What are the legalities that are forcing you into this position? He’s talking about the legalities of editing posts, not the legalities of allowing profanity. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/39 "2009-02-28T06:33:20Z")
> [@ntucker](#): > > He’s talking about the legalities of editing posts, not the legalities of allowing profanity. I was thinking more generally. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544/40 "2009-02-28T13:05:38Z")
> [@Carol\_Stream](#): > > A question, **Giraffe** , if you will. There were probably hundreds of threads like that in the Pit while you were a mod. Why weren’t they moved or closed? > > One in particular I remember, shortly before your resignation, was some guy pitting _the sandwich he had for lunch._ > > What gives? Well, I can say that sometimes we just don’t notice a thread (if it doesn’t get reported). Sometimes a pit thread about a sandwich belongs in MPSIMS, and sometimes it belongs in the Pit. The subject itself isn’t the point, it’s the tone; if it’s “Man, screw you, sandwich, you’re just so delicious” or “This sandwich kinda sucked” it’s off to MPSIMS, if it’s “fuck this goat-felching sandwich and send its evil creators back to Hell” then probably the Pit is best. I also tended to consider the tone of the replies already posted as well. Self-pittings, pity threads, threads getting mostly sympathetic and helpful replies, and that sort of thing were definitely MPSIMS material in my mind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-cervaises-telemarketer-rant-be-allowed-in-the-pit/487544.md?page=3)