# Would/do you refuse to go places gun carry isn't banned? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 30, 2015, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176 "2015-10-30T14:00:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/121 "2015-11-09T22:52:47Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Yeah no. Not in my experience. Granted I’m in Massachusetts not Texas. I have a number of friends that do carry, police officers, armed security and paranoid nut jobs. None of them I’d describe as overwhelmingly normal. If they where normal they wouldn’t be carrying, it’s rather unusual for someone to carry around here. > > None of the people I know who carry are particularly dangerous and I don’t feel threatened by them carrying guns. Well except the one who is currently facing charges for threatening someones life in a road rage incident, he shouldn’t be allowed to own a gun much less carry one around with him all the time. Yet you describe these people as your friends. Do you feel threatened by them carrying weapons? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2015, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/122 "2015-11-09T23:04:24Z")
Since you can get concealed or open carry in most of the country and I like to go outside, I don’t let it bother me. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/123 "2015-11-10T01:49:24Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Since you can get concealed or open carry in most of the country and I like to go outside, I don’t let it bother me. And yet to hear **ElvisL1ves** and others tell it, anyone who would _want_ to carry is dangerously unstable and likely one short fuse away from committing slaughter. (:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:) ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/124 "2015-11-10T02:30:54Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > If you make claims about your location, they are useless for arguments sake unless you identify it, you could be in Sweden for all we know. Downtown Manhattan, NY would be a lot different than Lincoln Nebraska. > … > How can we believe your ‘norms’ for your area without knowing where it is? I agree absolutely. In this matter, norms vary tremendously by region. A person openly carrying a gun while going about their daily business around here would be utterly abnormal. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen anybody carrying a gun in public who wasn’t wearing a uniform and I’ve never heard anybody express the desire to do so. People don’t even talk about guns in casual conversation, at least not that I’ve heard. I’ve never seen (or noticed) a business stating their gun policy so it never occurred to me to consider the matter. It’s just a total non-issue. Maybe I’d feel differently if I didn’t live in central New Jersey. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/125 "2015-11-10T02:55:09Z")
People can’t carry out in public in New Jersey without a permit, and I understand permits aren’t plentiful. On the other hand, no permit is required in one’s own place of business, so I’d expect liquor store owners and the like to be strapped sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/126 "2015-11-10T03:09:25Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Yet you describe these people as your friends. Do you feel threatened by them carrying weapons? You just quoted me saying as much… [QUOTE=Boytyperanma] None of the people I know who carry are particularly dangerous and I don’t feel threatened by them carrying guns. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/127 "2015-11-10T04:17:21Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > Even **boytyperanma** admitted he lives in Mass, USA, I live in Arkansas, but you live ‘somewhere’ in between so your claims as to the norms are suspect it seems to me. Name 3 adjoining states as your area if your location needs to be that vague for your comfort. No problem. But give us some idea. > > If you make claims about your location, they are useless for arguments sake unless you identify it, you could be in Sweden for all we know. Downtown Manhattan, NY would be a lot different than Lincoln Nebraska. > > As far as I can see, you are arguing from a non existent place or from out of the country. Like Canada for example. > > How can we believe your ‘norms’ for your area without knowing where it is? > > Can you give us that much? Please… > [@Green\_Bean](#): > > I agree absolutely. In this matter, norms vary tremendously by region. > > A person openly carrying a gun while going about their daily business around here would be utterly abnormal. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen anybody carrying a gun in public who wasn’t wearing a uniform and I’ve never heard anybody express the desire to do so. People don’t even talk about guns in casual conversation, at least not that I’ve heard. I’ve never seen (or noticed) a business stating their gun policy so it never occurred to me to consider the matter. It’s just a total non-issue. > > Maybe I’d feel differently if I didn’t live in central New Jersey. You agree with the guy who says he doesn’t believe what I say about where I live, when what I describe is quite similar to what you describe? You agree with a guy who mocks me for saying that community standards matter? Even though you straight out say that norms vary by region? Let’s just say I’m confused. Because as far as I can tell, you could have written my post, the core of which was: > [@](#): > > It depends where you are. Community norms matter. In Japan, people who carry guns are almost all dangerous criminals. In Texas, many completely normal, non-criminals choose to carry guns. Where I live is in between, but yes, carrying a gun openly here would automatically make you suspect, and the people who choose to carry, openly or otherwise, are biased towards the paranoid, overly macho, and outright criminal. But hey, I don’t want to say where I live, so I guess I’m lying. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/128 "2015-11-10T06:46:24Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > :::: snip :::: > > But hey, I don’t want to say where I live, so I guess I’m lying. I did not say you are lying. You just have no cred for your argument. If I said that 100% of the people in my 100 square mile area believe exactly as I do but refuse to say where that is, I would not expect people to discuss my views or threat them seriously because of that claim. I can say “I” believe or think that “I” feel so & so, that is a good way to lay my case but it no way makes a claim for others in my area. That could be shown that I might be wrong about the area or something. If I say where I am, I am allowing my claim to be verified. IMO, with an unknown location, you won’t be taken serious when making a claim for others. I have no bench mark. Claims of what you believe are fine, but IMO, claims about a place that we can’t know about do not hold much water. It also makes you look very suspicious to me IMO. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/129 "2015-11-10T11:35:39Z")
Thanks, glad to know you also think I’m suspicious. If you read my post, you will note that I made a claim of what I see (or don’t see). Like green bean, I don’t ever see guns in public, except on uniformed officers. I then drew the rather obvious inference that anyone else carrying a gun is therefore exceptional, and thus suspect. I rather resent your repeated implication that I am making this up. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/130 "2015-11-10T12:08:12Z")
But since you absolutely need to know location, here are some states in the US where I’ve spent at least a week and haven’t seen a civilian openly carrying a gun. In some of these states, I was mostly in urban areas and rural areas might be different: California Connecticut Illinois Indiana Maine Massachusetts Michigan New Jersey New York Oregon Pennsylvania Rhode Island Vermont Utah Washington Wisconsin DC And yes, I realize that it is somewhat common for people to carry concealled guns in some of those states. Not in others of those states. And in places where it is uncommon to carry a gun, the people who chose to do so anyway are unusual. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/131 "2015-11-10T13:00:27Z")
By the way, I am somewhat new to this board, and had been debating how open to about my personal information. Your aggressive posting makes me less inclined to share. And has a stronger negative impact of my impression you than your user name, which seems pro-gun but neutral. I am guessing that the part of my post that angered you was > [@puzzlegal](#): > > …Where I live is in between, but yes, carrying a gun openly here would automatically make you suspect, and the people who choose to carry, openly or otherwise, are biased towards the paranoid, overly macho, and outright criminal. > … The NRA keeps telling me that if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Do you think it so strange the folks from places with gun control associate guns with outlaws? (And with people who have real or imagined threats against their lives. And yes, with macho types who like the idea of being dangerous.) ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/132 "2015-11-10T14:06:57Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > You just quoted me saying as much… So they are your abnormal friends but they don’t make you feel threatened? I want to be sure I have an accurate picture of the relationship. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/133 "2015-11-10T15:57:07Z")
I wouldn’t refuse to go somewhere that doesn’t ban the (open) carrying of firearms, but if I went somewhere and people had guns openly displayed, I’d never go back. It wouldn’t be my kind of place, and the open-carry creeps aren’t my kind of people. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/134 "2015-11-11T03:43:44Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > You agree with the guy who says he doesn’t believe what I say about where I live, when what I describe is quite similar to what you describe? You agree with a guy who mocks me for saying that community standards matter? Even though you straight out say that norms vary by region? If **GusNSpot** and I agree on something in a gun thread…well, let’s just say that it’s unprecedented. Your description of societal norms is meaningless without context. I don’t find your refusal to say where you’re from suspicious, but it does prevent me from taking you seriously. If you don’t understand why it’s important to say what region you’re from when describing what’s normal in your region…well, I don’t know what to tell you. Really, you can tell us what state you’re from. I promise GusNSpot won’t track you down. ---
**Author:** ![j666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de0a6/32.png) [@j666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/j666)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2015, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/135 "2015-11-11T10:36:58Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > I don’t find your refusal to say where you’re from suspicious, but it does prevent me from taking you seriously. If you don’t understand why it’s important to say what region you’re from when describing what’s normal in your region…well, I don’t know what to tell you. down. I don’t see that at all; the discussion is not specifically about social norms and gun behavior, it’s about **personal attitudes** toward gun behavior. **puzzlegal** included a description of the local norms as context to the personal attitudes, not as some kind of evidence. > [@](#): > > Really, you can tell us what state you’re from. I promise GusNSpot won’t track you down. You do know that’s not an overly paranoid fear, yes? That does happen. (Not that I mean to imply GunsNSpot is a psycho cyber stalker.) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/136 "2015-11-12T13:16:07Z")
I’m not worried about GusNSpot tracking me down. I just haven’t quite decided how public I want to be on this message board, and that includes my location. Honestly, if he’d asked me in a less confrontational way, I probably would have given a region, but something about his request (possibly the implication I was lying) really pissed me off. And as j666 points out, my actual location isn’t relevant to my point. If you believe there are any places in the US (or heck, in the world) where it is uncommon to carry guns, and believe that I might actually live in such a place, then my point stands. And in fact, my point was the same as yours, that the social norms in the region matter. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/137 "2015-11-12T15:09:02Z")
Is it a criminal violation to ignore an establishment’s posted “No Guns Allowed” policy? That is, if I have a CCW permit, and I walk into a restaurant and see a big sign saying “Joe’s Eatery does not allow guns on these premises”. I ignore that, and sit down at the counter and order a meal. Have I broken the law? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/138 "2015-11-12T15:56:24Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Is it a criminal violation to ignore an establishment’s posted “No Guns Allowed” policy? > > That is, if I have a CCW permit, and I walk into a restaurant and see a big sign saying “Joe’s Eatery does not allow guns on these premises”. I ignore that, and sit down at the counter and order a meal. Have I broken the law? It depends. In Virginia, you can be charged with trespass. (Assuming “If I have a CCW permit…” is shorthand for “If I have a CCW permit _and am carrying a concealed handgun in accordance therewith…_”) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/139 "2015-11-12T17:42:19Z")
Same for Florida, although some private businesses are prohibited carry areas anyway and you could also be prosecuted under that law separately. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176/140 "2015-11-12T20:29:53Z")
Contrary to the media, there are not many people doing OPEN carry where the norm is against that even if it is legal. Court houses of any size have metal detectors and ‘no guns’ inside laws. A few places have ‘no guns’ and a few say ‘guns welcome/preferred.’ Without detectors or personal searches, how do they know or anyone know who is carrying concealed? There are some people won’t go to a ‘Guns is good’ type place, but seldom a majority except in weird places like Chicago, NYC, the entire state of Mass & Calif but those places have places like Boston & LA that don’t seem to admit that they have a lot of gun problems… IMO I love NH but some people are terrified of the murder rate and wild shooting that happens there on a daily basis … ‘cough, cough.’ Today I am very impressed with **“Green Bean”** & I too shall mark my calendar. Thanks… I personally do not comprehend having any mores because of location. Not wearing shoes in the house seems strange to me & if a whole country does it, I will try to fit in but I will still go to a house that allows shoes because the custom does not bother me one way or the other. I am not that malleable. In my experience & opinion having weapons around has more benefits than not having them. YMMV [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-do-you-refuse-to-go-places-gun-carry-isnt-banned/736176.md?page=8)