Yet you describe these people as your friends. Do you feel threatened by them carrying weapons?
Since you can get concealed or open carry in most of the country and I like to go outside, I don’t let it bother me.
And yet to hear ElvisL1ves and others tell it, anyone who would want to carry is dangerously unstable and likely one short fuse away from committing slaughter. (:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:)
I agree absolutely. In this matter, norms vary tremendously by region.
A person openly carrying a gun while going about their daily business around here would be utterly abnormal. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen anybody carrying a gun in public who wasn’t wearing a uniform and I’ve never heard anybody express the desire to do so. People don’t even talk about guns in casual conversation, at least not that I’ve heard. I’ve never seen (or noticed) a business stating their gun policy so it never occurred to me to consider the matter. It’s just a total non-issue.
Maybe I’d feel differently if I didn’t live in central New Jersey.
People can’t carry out in public in New Jersey without a permit, and I understand permits aren’t plentiful. On the other hand, no permit is required in one’s own place of business, so I’d expect liquor store owners and the like to be strapped sometimes.
You just quoted me saying as much…
[QUOTE=Boytyperanma]
None of the people I know who carry are particularly dangerous and I don’t feel threatened by them carrying guns.
[/QUOTE]
You agree with the guy who says he doesn’t believe what I say about where I live, when what I describe is quite similar to what you describe? You agree with a guy who mocks me for saying that community standards matter? Even though you straight out say that norms vary by region?
Let’s just say I’m confused. Because as far as I can tell, you could have written my post, the core of which was:
But hey, I don’t want to say where I live, so I guess I’m lying.
I did not say you are lying. You just have no cred for your argument.
If I said that 100% of the people in my 100 square mile area believe exactly as I do but refuse to say where that is, I would not expect people to discuss my views or threat them seriously because of that claim.
I can say “I” believe or think that “I” feel so & so, that is a good way to lay my case but it no way makes a claim for others in my area. That could be shown that I might be wrong about the area or something. If I say where I am, I am allowing my claim to be verified.
IMO, with an unknown location, you won’t be taken serious when making a claim for others. I have no bench mark.
Claims of what you believe are fine, but IMO, claims about a place that we can’t know about do not hold much water.
It also makes you look very suspicious to me IMO.
Thanks, glad to know you also think I’m suspicious.
If you read my post, you will note that I made a claim of what I see (or don’t see). Like green bean, I don’t ever see guns in public, except on uniformed officers. I then drew the rather obvious inference that anyone else carrying a gun is therefore exceptional, and thus suspect.
I rather resent your repeated implication that I am making this up.
But since you absolutely need to know location, here are some states in the US where I’ve spent at least a week and haven’t seen a civilian openly carrying a gun. In some of these states, I was mostly in urban areas and rural areas might be different:
California
Connecticut
Illinois
Indiana
Maine
Massachusetts
Michigan
New Jersey
New York
Oregon
Pennsylvania
Rhode Island
Vermont
Utah
Washington
Wisconsin
DC
And yes, I realize that it is somewhat common for people to carry concealled guns in some of those states. Not in others of those states. And in places where it is uncommon to carry a gun, the people who chose to do so anyway are unusual.
By the way, I am somewhat new to this board, and had been debating how open to about my personal information. Your aggressive posting makes me less inclined to share. And has a stronger negative impact of my impression you than your user name, which seems pro-gun but neutral. I am guessing that the part of my post that angered you was
The NRA keeps telling me that if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Do you think it so strange the folks from places with gun control associate guns with outlaws? (And with people who have real or imagined threats against their lives. And yes, with macho types who like the idea of being dangerous.)
So they are your abnormal friends but they don’t make you feel threatened? I want to be sure I have an accurate picture of the relationship.
I wouldn’t refuse to go somewhere that doesn’t ban the (open) carrying of firearms, but if I went somewhere and people had guns openly displayed, I’d never go back.
It wouldn’t be my kind of place, and the open-carry creeps aren’t my kind of people.
If GusNSpot and I agree on something in a gun thread…well, let’s just say that it’s unprecedented.
Your description of societal norms is meaningless without context. I don’t find your refusal to say where you’re from suspicious, but it does prevent me from taking you seriously. If you don’t understand why it’s important to say what region you’re from when describing what’s normal in your region…well, I don’t know what to tell you.
Really, you can tell us what state you’re from. I promise GusNSpot won’t track you down.
I don’t see that at all; the discussion is not specifically about social norms and gun behavior, it’s about personal attitudes toward gun behavior. puzzlegal included a description of the local norms as context to the personal attitudes, not as some kind of evidence.
You do know that’s not an overly paranoid fear, yes? That does happen.
(Not that I mean to imply GunsNSpot is a psycho cyber stalker.)
I’m not worried about GusNSpot tracking me down. I just haven’t quite decided how public I want to be on this message board, and that includes my location. Honestly, if he’d asked me in a less confrontational way, I probably would have given a region, but something about his request (possibly the implication I was lying) really pissed me off.
And as j666 points out, my actual location isn’t relevant to my point. If you believe there are any places in the US (or heck, in the world) where it is uncommon to carry guns, and believe that I might actually live in such a place, then my point stands. And in fact, my point was the same as yours, that the social norms in the region matter.
Is it a criminal violation to ignore an establishment’s posted “No Guns Allowed” policy?
That is, if I have a CCW permit, and I walk into a restaurant and see a big sign saying “Joe’s Eatery does not allow guns on these premises”. I ignore that, and sit down at the counter and order a meal. Have I broken the law?
Regards,
Shodan
It depends.
In Virginia, you can be charged with trespass. (Assuming “If I have a CCW permit…” is shorthand for “If I have a CCW permit and am carrying a concealed handgun in accordance therewith…”)
Same for Florida, although some private businesses are prohibited carry areas anyway and you could also be prosecuted under that law separately.
Contrary to the media, there are not many people doing OPEN carry where the norm is against that even if it is legal.
Court houses of any size have metal detectors and ‘no guns’ inside laws.
A few places have ‘no guns’ and a few say ‘guns welcome/preferred.’
Without detectors or personal searches, how do they know or anyone know who is carrying concealed?
There are some people won’t go to a ‘Guns is good’ type place, but seldom a majority except in weird places like Chicago, NYC, the entire state of Mass & Calif but those places have places like Boston & LA that don’t seem to admit that they have a lot of gun problems… IMO
I love NH but some people are terrified of the murder rate and wild shooting that happens there on a daily basis … ‘cough, cough.’
Today I am very impressed with “Green Bean” & I too shall mark my calendar. Thanks…
I personally do not comprehend having any mores because of location.
Not wearing shoes in the house seems strange to me & if a whole country does it, I will try to fit in but I will still go to a house that allows shoes because the custom does not bother me one way or the other. I am not that malleable.
In my experience & opinion having weapons around has more benefits than not having them. YMMV