# Would Greece do better as a state or territory of the US?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [June 22, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966 "2012-06-22T18:12:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/1 "2012-06-22T18:12:00Z")
With all of Greece’s troubles, I got to thinking about the differences between the EU and the US, another federation of sorts, though without the same level of sovereignty among its members.
1. Would Greece do better fiscally if it were to join the US as a State or Territory?
2. What effect would it have on the US? Would the US be able to lift Greece back up to normalcy, or at least up to the level of California or another fiscally challenged but not circling the toilet jurisdiction?
3. What are the chances, politically, that such a thing could go through?
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### Author:  [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/2 "2012-06-22T18:33:22Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#):
>
> 1. What are the chances, politically, that such a thing could go through?
Pretty much zero. They aren’t going to want to be absorbed by another culture, and I doubt that they agree with much of American politics; little of the world does. And America has no reason to want to add an economic disaster like Greece is at the moment to itself.
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### Author:  [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/3 "2012-06-22T18:45:51Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#):
>
> Pretty much zero. They aren’t going to want to be absorbed by another culture, and I doubt that they agree with much of American politics; little of the world does. And America has no reason to want to add an economic disaster like Greece is at the moment to itself.
Makes a lot of sense. Over here Puerto Rico (which is already a territory) has not been terribly eager for Statehood partly because of cultural and language reasons - they feel that full integration would mean Anglicization.
I could see the US potentially wanting Greece for its closeness to the Middle East. Right now, the US has to stay on good terms with various countries that “let” us operate military bases there and transport troops across the territory. If the Pentagon could just slap missile silos on Crete and station dozens of aircraft carriers at the new Athens Naval Base, it could give the US more forward power.
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### Author:  [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/4 "2012-06-22T19:05:22Z")
The US is still digesting Iraq and Afghanistan. Another country at this point would give us heartburn. We might have room for an after dinner mint country, like Lichtenstein or maybe a Greek Island or two, in a few years.
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### Author:  [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/5 "2012-06-22T19:58:59Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#):
>
> station dozens of aircraft carriers at the new Athens Naval Base,
The U.S. does not have “dozens of aircraft carriers” to station anywhere. At the moment, we don’t even have a full dozen active in the entire navy.
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### Author:  [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/6 "2012-06-22T20:39:43Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#):
>
> If the Pentagon could just slap missile silos on Crete and station dozens of aircraft carriers at the new Athens Naval Base, it could give the US more forward power.
Aircraft carriers are a lot more useful in the Persian Gulf these days than in the Mediterranean. Unless that pesky Roman pirate problem starts up again.
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### Author:  [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/7 "2012-06-22T21:22:12Z")
I think it makes little sense for Greece to join the USA. I think a more interesting question is what are the chances of Greece being absorbed into Germany? Germany has to deal with the Greek debt either way. If Greece ceded some sovereignty to Germany, would that help with the overall problems the euro is facing? Is this option even being considered by anyone?
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### Author:  [@HoboStew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HoboStew)
#### Post date: [June 22, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/8 "2012-06-22T21:22:35Z")
Lets do a trial run with Santorini and work from there.
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### Author:  [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2012, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/9 "2012-06-23T09:22:06Z")
It could be the break the Dukakis campaign has been waiting for.
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### Author:  [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2012, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/10 "2012-06-23T10:47:07Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#):
>
> I could see the US potentially wanting Greece for its closeness to the Middle East. Right now, the US has to stay on good terms with various countries that “let” us operate military bases there and transport troops across the territory. If the Pentagon could just slap missile silos on Crete and station dozens of aircraft carriers at the new Athens Naval Base, it could give the US more forward power.
We already [have](http://www.cnic.navy.mil/soudabay/index.htm) a Navy base on Crete.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2012, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/11 "2012-06-23T14:07:50Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#):
>
> 1. What are the chances, politically, that such a thing could go through?
Are you actually asking about the chances that one of the world’s oldest continuously existing nations and cultures will voluntarily give up its existence as a nation-state to be absorbed by a country that doesn’t even speak its language? Seriously? I can’t believe someone would even ask this question.
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### Author:  [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2012, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/12 "2012-06-23T14:47:11Z")
How is Greece “one of the world’s oldest continuously existing nations”? There was no single Greek nation before the 19e century and the last Greek state before that called itself Romanoi?
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### Author:  [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/13 "2012-06-23T16:52:53Z")
> [@Ramira](#):
>
> How is Greece “one of the world’s oldest continuously existing nations”? There was no single Greek nation before the 19e century and the last Greek state before that called itself Romanoi?
The word “nation” does not mean the same thing as the word “state”. They are frequently combined _because_ they mean two distinct things.
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### Author:  [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2012, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/14 "2012-06-23T16:57:00Z")
I know the meanings in English. For both of them these are not true statements.
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### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/15 "2012-06-23T17:54:02Z")
> [@Ramira](#):
>
> How is Greece “one of the world’s oldest continuously existing nations”? There was no single Greek nation before the 19e century and the last Greek state before that called itself Romanoi?
I would submit to you that _the Greeks_ would assert their existence as a distinct nation dates back thousands of years. They believe, with absolute and total sincerity, that their civilization not only dates back to antiquity, but is the founding heart of all Western civilization. And it’s thier opinion that would drive the issue.
The idea of them joining the United States is insane. It is about as likely as the people of the United States voting to become a state of India.
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### Author:  [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)
#### Post date: [June 23, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/16 "2012-06-23T19:07:32Z")
Yes that is true, I do not disagree with that.
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### Author:  [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/17 "2012-06-24T21:23:07Z")
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> … It is about as likely as the people of the United States voting to become a state of India.
Even the people of Indiana?
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### Author:  [@Reno\_Nevada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reno_Nevada)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2012, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/18 "2012-06-24T23:15:29Z")
The idea of Greece joining the U.S. as the 51st state is of course insane in a lot of ways; neither side would want it.
However, I thought the OP would be asking a slightly different question, how does Greece as a element of Europe differ from the status of various states in the U.S. And since I had an answer to that, I wanted to share it.
From [this article](http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/05/the-difference-between-the-us-and-europe-in-1-graph/256857/):
> [@](#):
>
> The euro zone has Greece. The United States has Mississippi. Or Missouri.
>
> The difference between the U.S. and Europe is that when the Greek economy “pulls a Mississippi” (or perhaps I should say, when Mississippi “pulls a Greece”), the EU and the U.S. have 180-degree opposite reactions. Over here, we calmly write checks to Mississippi in the form of Medicaid and unemployment insurance, no questions asked. Europe has no comparable “Peripheraid” for its weak peripheral states. Instead, it has chaos.
In brief, the U.S. routinely transfers money from “have” states like California and New York to “have not” states like Mississippi and Missouri. So far, Europe has been unable/unwilling to have similar fiscal transfers.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/19 "2012-06-25T02:10:36Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#):
>
> Makes a lot of sense. Over here Puerto Rico (which is already a territory) has not been terribly eager for Statehood partly because of cultural and language reasons - they feel that full integration would mean Anglicization.
While mainland Americans are afraid that it **wouldn’t,** and that view is probably correct.
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### Author:  [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)
#### Post date: [June 25, 2012, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-greece-do-better-as-a-state-or-territory-of-the-us/625966/20 "2012-06-25T02:16:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#):
>
> While mainland Americans are afraid that it **wouldn’t,** and that view is probably correct.
:dubious:
I can honestly say I’ve never met anyone who gave a damn either way.
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