# Would I be insulting my brother? (kinda long, a bit complicated) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 13, 2006, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-i-be-insulting-my-brother-kinda-long-a-bit-complicated/352501 "2006-04-13T11:09:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-i-be-insulting-my-brother-kinda-long-a-bit-complicated/352501/41 "2006-04-14T16:51:45Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Good luck. > > Final thought - by NYC do you mean Manhattan? Or are you out in Brooklyn or such and commuting? Might be an option, as unpleasant as it may seem. Thanks. I live in Queens, an hour and a half from work already. > [@Dag Otto](#): > > If not, was it because of this fund the grandparents set aside? Are the grandparents as rotten as the ex-wife? Mostly it was because I had few discretionary funds available to set up a fund until the last few years. My former in-laws are decent enough elderly people, who have no great love for me, and a lot of self-justifying loyalty to their daughter. I wouldn’t rely on them to help me out–I’ve tried appealing to them, for their grandkids’ sake, to persuade their daughter to take a less rapacious stance with me and they finally came back with “Sorry, we’re not going to help you out. Have a nice life.” ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-i-be-insulting-my-brother-kinda-long-a-bit-complicated/352501/42 "2006-04-14T17:08:37Z")
If you’re a tenured University employee can’t you work out something for them to go to your college at a discount if the kids are agreeable? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-i-be-insulting-my-brother-kinda-long-a-bit-complicated/352501/43 "2006-04-14T18:17:28Z")
> [@astro](#): > > If you’re a tenured University employee can’t you work out something for them to go to your college at a discount if the kids are agreeable? Nope. The fact that I am compensated with free undergraduate tuition for any of my children is completely immaterial to the judge in deciding how much I pay for tuition, if my kids don’t want to attend my university. Again, legal advice is this is a non-starter. One lawyer told me “It’s as relevant as if you’d said ‘My uncle is president of Eskimo University, and he’ll let my kids go to their North Pole campus and live on free blubber.’ If your kids want to attend a university other than North Pole U., then your uncle’s generosity counts for nothing.” Hard to believe I’m describing a judicial system on planet Earth, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2006, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-i-be-insulting-my-brother-kinda-long-a-bit-complicated/352501/44 "2006-04-14T19:40:25Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > Nope. The fact that I am compensated with free undergraduate tuition for any of my children is completely immaterial to the judge in deciding how much I pay for tuition, if my kids don’t want to attend my university. Again, legal advice is this is a non-starter. One lawyer told me “It’s as relevant as if you’d said ‘My uncle is president of Eskimo University, and he’ll let my kids go to their North Pole campus and live on free blubber.’ If your kids want to attend a university other than North Pole U., then your uncle’s generosity counts for nothing.” > > Hard to believe I’m describing a judicial system on planet Earth, isn’t it? Man… I had a fairly contentious divorce re allocatiung resources, but your level of fuckedness pushes boundaries I didn’t even imagine existed. Free college tuitions available and it’s all water spilled on the gound - incredible! ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-i-be-insulting-my-brother-kinda-long-a-bit-complicated/352501/45 "2006-04-15T18:06:09Z")
I did have one other thought. Would any of the kids be interested in going to the college where you work, in exchange for a cash payment of 50% of what they save you at age 21? ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-i-be-insulting-my-brother-kinda-long-a-bit-complicated/352501/46 "2006-05-12T12:39:24Z")
I’m reviving this thread because of a decision by [Ontario’s court of appeals](http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060512.wxeducation12/BNStory/National/home). > [@](#): > > Children of divorced parents should foot a major portion of the bill for financing their postsecondary education, the Ontario Court of Appeal said yesterday. > > The court ruled 2-1 that rather than seeing their estranged parents stuck with the bill, two Toronto brothers must spend not just their summer-job earnings, but a substantial portion of a nest egg left them by their deceased grandfather, on their university costs. **pseudotriton ruber ruber** may want to consider emigrating 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Snickers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@Snickers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snickers)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-i-be-insulting-my-brother-kinda-long-a-bit-complicated/352501/47 "2006-05-12T13:35:26Z")
Dude, that’s just not fair. But I had the same question as **Dag Otto** - what’s ex-wife, or Daughter 1 for that matter, going to do in two years when suddenly she’s paying 100% of the costs? (As I understand it, **prr** , you’re only on the hook for her costs until she turns 21 - please correct me if I’m wrong there). Is there enough in this fund of hers to pay for the remaining expensive college tuition? Do they realized that eventually they might have to pay the piper? Another series of questions: Does your youngest daughter have a similar fund all of her own, or is there only one that the two girls are expected to share? Because if that’s the case, and based on your description of Daughter 1, I foresee that Daughter 2’s going to get screwed. Do they both understand this? ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2006, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-i-be-insulting-my-brother-kinda-long-a-bit-complicated/352501/48 "2006-05-12T14:51:49Z")
I think it’s a long way to generalize from a decision in Canada to a situation in the US. Canada subsidizes a lot more of university education with taxes, for one thing. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-i-be-insulting-my-brother-kinda-long-a-bit-complicated/352501/49 "2006-05-13T01:30:03Z")
> [@Mrs O'Malley's Cow](#): > > I believe you with all my heart!!! My uncle was told that he would have to pay more child support so his bitch of an ex wife could increase “her and her children’s standard of living” Never mind her standard of living was just fine. Never mind she used the child support payments for her clothes, her vacations, etc. The judge even admitted that he didn’t know how my aunt and uncle were going to pay but they had to pay. Our family ended up having to foot some of the payments. It is a bullshit system that victimizes. There are some states that are so pro ex-wife that they will send a man to the homeless shelter instead of telling the ex to learn to live within her means. :mad: THIS IS A BIZARRO WORLD and this stuff happens all the time. I am so sorry it is happening to you. > > You need to get a hold of a father’s advocacy group or a men’s advocacy group and find out if there is anything they can do including putting pressure on key people. > > Keep your chin up and keep us all posted! That can’t be right. I just did a little research and found a NY case stating quite the opposite: “Neither an increase in the income of the noncustodial parent nor the generalized increased needs of the parties’ growing children, standing alone, are sufficient to warrant an upward modification of support. Where a separation agreement manifests an understanding that the child might pursue a college education and specific provision was made to cover those expenses, an unanticipated or unreasonable change in circumstances will not be found based solely on an increase in the cost of that education.” (_Henja v. Reilly_ (2006) 810 N.Y.S.2d 242) I think it depends on what kind of agreement the OP entered into with his self entitled bitch of an ex-wife. If he only agreed to pay the tuition costs equal to those of a state college, the court cannot increase what he has to pay beyond that, if the kids decide to attend a fancy schmancy private school, per the case law cited above. Of course, if the agreement provided that he pay the tuition of whatever the hell school his kids decided to go to, then the above case law wouldn’t really help him out too much. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-i-be-insulting-my-brother-kinda-long-a-bit-complicated/352501/50 "2006-05-13T07:43:57Z")
How’s your brother’s relationship with your children? Could you go to him and ask for the money as a gift for them? IME loans don’t work too well within families or between friends. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-i-be-insulting-my-brother-kinda-long-a-bit-complicated/352501/51 "2006-05-13T10:38:34Z")
> [@lezlers](#): > > That can’t be right. I just did a little research and found a NY case stating quite the opposite: > > “Neither an increase in the income of the noncustodial parent nor the generalized increased needs of the parties’ growing children, standing alone, are sufficient to warrant an upward modification of support. Where a separation agreement manifests an understanding that the child might pursue a college education and specific provision was made to cover those expenses, an unanticipated or unreasonable change in circumstances will not be found based solely on an increase in the cost of that education.” > > (_Henja v. Reilly_ (2006) 810 N.Y.S.2d 242) > > I think it depends on what kind of agreement the OP entered into with his self entitled bitch of an ex-wife. If he only agreed to pay the tuition costs equal to those of a state college, the court cannot increase what he has to pay beyond that, if the kids decide to attend a fancy schmancy private school, per the case law cited above. Of course, if the agreement provided that he pay the tuition of whatever the hell school his kids decided to go to, then the above case law wouldn’t really help him out too much. No, my agreement doesn’t mention college costs specifically. (Believe or no, my ex-wife decided not to ask that that issue be included because she wanted me to agree to pay for any GRADUATE school my kids would have, meaning she wanted me to pay for education well past age 21, when my oldest was only 6 y.o., and I kinda balked at that). I’ll be very interested in that case-law citing, since this is due to come up before a judge shortly. Since I don’t much know about looking up specific case-law–would sending the citation to my attorney suffice? Just " (_Henja v. Reilly_ (2006) 810 N.Y.S.2d 242)"? Is there a larger link you could provide, with any peripheral issues discussed? I’m very interested in that citation, obviously. It seems quite recent–maybe my attorney hasn’t seen it yet? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-i-be-insulting-my-brother-kinda-long-a-bit-complicated/352501/52 "2006-05-13T10:53:19Z")
> [@pseudotriton ruber ruber](#): > > would sending the citation to my attorney suffice? Just " (_Henja v. Reilly_ (2006) 810 N.Y.S.2d 242)"? Is there a larger link you could provide, with any peripheral issues discussed? I’m very interested in that citation, obviously. It seems quite recent–maybe my attorney hasn’t seen it yet? Actually, I just googled the case, and forwarded the PDF to my attorney. We will see, but thanks for that lead. ---
**Author:** ![lezlers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@lezlers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lezlers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2006, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-i-be-insulting-my-brother-kinda-long-a-bit-complicated/352501/53 "2006-05-13T16:39:37Z")
No problem. You may also want to ask your attorney about challenging the court order via changed circumstances. I noticed a lot of case law on that as well. The changed circumstances being your daughter’s decision to attend a very expensive college (that is, if it had been a common understanding before that she would attend a state school or something like that.) From what I gathered during my brief research, all secondary education payments are within the judges discretion. If your daughter choose to attend a very expensive school after the judgment was ordered, it is well w/in the judges discretion to now lower the amount of tuition you’re expected to pay. And I know it’s expensive, but, if the judge is obviously abusing her discretion (which it looks to me she is-forcing you to pay beyond your means) then you should appeal. This tyrant of a judge you’re dealing with isn’t the be-all-end-all of this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-i-be-insulting-my-brother-kinda-long-a-bit-complicated/352501.md?page=2)