# Would Israel survive w/o U.S. as an ally? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 10, 2002, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829 "2002-04-10T14:18:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jmpride62](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@jmpride62](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jmpride62)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2002, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/1 "2002-04-10T14:18:16Z")
Just watching CNN, and they were comparing the size/population of Israel to the rest of the middle east. Just wondering, if the U.S. were to abandon its alliance with Israel, would the country be able to survive? ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/2 "2002-04-11T06:57:23Z")
Not bloody likely. ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/3 "2002-04-11T12:41:54Z")
No if it doesn’t make an about turn and agree to the Saudi plan. ---
**Author:** ![Mondeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Mondeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mondeo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/4 "2002-04-11T12:48:24Z")
No chance they’d survive with out the US. The Saudi plan would be immediately withdrawn by the Arab world if US support was withdrawn from Israel. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/5 "2002-04-11T13:28:25Z")
I believe, IMHO, that God would preserve Israel even if all countries, including the U.S. declared war on them. Israel wille exist as Israel forever. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/6 "2002-04-11T17:17:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by vanilla \* > I believe, IMHO, that God would preserve Israel even if all countries, including the U.S. declared war on them. > Israel wille exist as Israel forever. Sooooooo… there’s no reason for the US to be entangled in this, and we can just tell the Palestinians to give up, 'cos God’s not on their side? I wish I had your confidence. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/7 "2002-04-11T19:30:59Z")
How far did Israel get by herself in 1948 when every Arab country in the area declared war on her? ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/8 "2002-04-11T19:49:01Z")
yes. correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure Israel has more allies than just the United States. Either way, I’m sure more would show up. ---
**Author:** ![barking\_frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/96bed5/32.png) [@barking\_frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barking_frog)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2002, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/9 "2002-04-11T21:24:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lno \* > \*\*Sooooooo… there’s no reason for the US to be entangled in this, and we can just tell the Palestinians to give up, 'cos God’s not on their side? > > I wish I had your confidence. \*\* I thought he was kidding at first, but then considered that maybe he just meant something along the lives of “it’ll still be Israel, despite whoever ‘owns’ it, unless someone tries to nuke it, then, by God, Israel would be saved”. I, however, was thinking more along the lives of “how would the current citizens of Israel fare if…” Anyways, I don’t have an opinion on this matter. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/10 "2002-04-12T03:47:59Z")
With apologies to Stalin: “God? How many divisions does he have?” God isn’t how the Israelis get billions of dollars or tanks and guns and planes. If the U.S. cut them off, they’d be farked. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/11 "2002-04-12T12:35:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ElwoodCuse \* > \*\*“God? How many divisions does he have?” > > \*\* LOL The Saudis buy from the USA, but who do the other Mid East nations buy weapons from? The Russians who so badly need money? The Chinese? The Australians? Does the stuff the Saudis bought really work, or does it all have little R/C boxes in Tel Aviv? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/12 "2002-04-12T12:41:30Z")
Israel has proven military superiority over its neighbors time and time again. It has a strong military base to build from, and a healthy economy in and of itself. If the US pulled its monetary aid, but remained an ally, Israel would do fine. If the US embargoes, sanctions, or otherwise actively denounced Israel, then it _might_ be in trouble. Iraq has no aid from the US, is crippled by sanctions, and has several neighbors that don’t like Saddam, and it has managed to stay afloat. And remember, Sharon has the bomb. Israel could also forge new alliances. Maybe England and France want to try for the Suez again? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/13 "2002-04-12T12:47:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Menocchio \* > \*\* Maybe England and France want to try for the Suez again? \*\* An aside. _Enterprise_ won’t fit through the Suez canal, but would those anti-submarine carriers the British use? And have they any interest in that part of the world? ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/14 "2002-04-12T15:23:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Menocchio \* > Israel has proven military superiority over its neighbors time and time again. It has a strong military base to build from, and a healthy economy in and of itself. That’s with US aid, thank you very much. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/15 "2002-04-12T16:37:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Urban Ranger \* > \*\* > > That’s with US aid, thank you very much. \*\* Back to my question, how much aid did they have in 1948? ---
**Author:** ![tapioca\_tundra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@tapioca\_tundra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapioca_tundra)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/16 "2002-04-12T17:08:58Z")
Or 1967 for that matter. This takes a look at two things, long term support or short term in which an all-out invasion from the surrounding arab countries would take place. The Enterprise? carnivorousplant, fill me in. \*\*Maybe England and France want to try for the Suez again? \*\* ROTF ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/17 "2002-04-12T17:15:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anticay \* > \*\* > The Enterprise? carnivorousplant, fill me in. > \*\* In reference to taking Suez. Why? It has no strategic importance to the USA because our ships are too big to fit through canals, although I guess a carrier like Enterprise could make her own. 🙂 The British in NATO specialised in anti-submarine warfare, and their carriers are smaller. They have Harriers on them. I was wondering if they could pass through the Suez canal and if the Brits would need to get them anywhere quickly enough to make Suez important to them. ---
**Author:** ![FallenAngel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@FallenAngel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FallenAngel)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/18 "2002-04-12T20:45:50Z")
When I was in college, my news analysis class had an assignment to put together an overview article for the last 6 months of Middle Eastern coverage from one of the wire services. Oddly enough in 1988 or 89 (I don’t remember which year I took that class) 47 percent of the US foreign aid budget went to Israel. No, I do not have the cite any longer (sorry). That would lead me to believe, if nearly half of the billions of dollars the US shelled out in foreign aid worldwide went to one country, that country would not survive particularly well without said aid. Add to the fact that Israel doesn’t have a heck of a lot of offer in terms of exports for the world economy, and I’d imagine a pretty quick slide into the upper eschelons of the third world without propping up by the US. ---
**Author:** ![tapioca\_tundra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a88e57/32.png) [@tapioca\_tundra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tapioca_tundra)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2002, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/19 "2002-04-12T21:52:29Z")
Our ships do fit. I’ve been through the Suez four times, that is, through and back again twice. I think the engineers design for stuff like that like the M1 Abram being able to fit all European tunnels. ---
**Author:** ![masafer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@masafer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/masafer)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2002, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-israel-survive-w-o-u-s-as-an-ally/102829/20 "2002-04-13T02:43:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by FallenAngel \* > > That would lead me to believe, if nearly half of the billions of dollars the US shelled out in foreign aid worldwide went to one country, that country would not survive particularly well without said aid. > > Add to the fact that Israel doesn’t have a heck of a lot of offer in terms of exports for the world economy, and I’d imagine a pretty quick slide into the upper eschelons of the third world without propping up by the US. \*\* This may not be the forum for facts, but I think some are in order. The U.S. currently gives a total of about $3 billion a year to Israel. $1.2 million of that is economic assistance, while $1.8 billion of that is military assistance. (cite: [http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/US-Israel/foreign\_aid.html](http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/US-Israel/foreign_aid.html)) The total GDP of Israel is over $110 billion. (cite: [http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/is.html#Econ](http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/is.html#Econ)) U.S. aid to israel is thus only about 2.7% of GDP. If Israel lost this, it’d certainly hurt and slow down the economy, but it’d hardly be disastrous. Israel would probably have to devote more resources to the military, but unless there was an embargo or boycott by the U.S. and Europe, I don’t see Israel’s economy collapsing.