# Would it be a valid suit if Barney Frank sued Steve Anderson for libel? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 2, 2009, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670 "2009-09-02T19:40:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2009, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/21 "2009-09-02T23:16:29Z")
Have you _seen_ the way the Supreme Court dresses? ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/22 "2009-09-03T00:01:51Z")
What do you mean by “valid suit”? If it’s filed correctly, the, yes, it’s a valid suit. Or were you asking us to actually conduct the lawsuit on this messageboard and deliver a finding? In which case I’d have to say “not enough information”. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/23 "2009-09-03T00:32:39Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > What do you mean by “valid suit”? > > If it’s filed correctly, the, yes, it’s a valid suit. > > Or were you asking us to actually conduct the lawsuit on this messageboard and deliver a finding? In which case I’d have to say “not enough information”. From the OP: > [@](#): > > While I seriously doubt that Frank (who’s been called a fag by no less than the Republican House majority leader before) will pursue recourse, if he did so would he stand any chance of collecting damages? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/24 "2009-09-03T03:10:28Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > \*The fact that a presumably consensual relationship between a middle aged man and a 17 year old is not pedophilia but- at worst- statuatory rape (and of course a political career killer and kind of icky) Well, it certainly didn’t kill Gerry Studds career – he was re-elected 6 times after he was censured for this. And the former page (then 28) campaigned for him in some of those re-election campaigns. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/25 "2009-09-03T03:15:23Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Second, the person making the statement must KNOW it’s false… looks like a lawsuit would fall apart right here. The person making the statement must know it to be false or **show [reckless disregard](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation#Public_figure_doctrine_.28absence_of_malice.29) of the statement’s truth or falsity**. Check. Obviously, a requirement that the speaker must absolutely know that the statement is false would make it practically impossible (rather than merely difficult) to prove defamation. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 5:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/26 "2009-09-03T05:31:39Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > The [proudly uneducated](http://www.faithfulwordbaptist.org/page2.html) Anderson later said in an interview with Alan Colmes that he was wrong about Frank- that he had him confused with another faggot Democrat representative from Massachusetts, [Gerry Studds](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Studds), who had a sexual relationship with a 17 year old male page.\* All gays are, however, pedophiles who enlist by rape. > > So my question: I know that the rules are different for public figures when it comes to allegations of slander/libel/defamation, etc., but would Barney Frank have a valid case if he wished to pursue legal action against Anderson? I don’t know if he has a case but he would lose in the long run by giving Anderson a soap box. All this clown has to do is say he actually meant to talk about Senator Frank’s prostitute/companion who operated a brothel (unbeknownst to Frank) out of his apartment. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/27 "2009-09-03T14:16:57Z")
I have oft wondered about this. If I aim an unloaded gun at your head and pull the trigger I am guilty of assault. If however they can prove that I thought the gun would fire and kill you, I am guilty of attempted murder. So if I pray for you to die, and if they can prove I think prayer works that way,\* that such prayer is likely to cause your death, how am I not guilty of attempted murder. I understand it opens up a huge can of worms, but the logic seems inescapable. \*But few believers think prayer can influence God to do any particular thing. Free will and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/28 "2009-09-03T15:11:38Z")
A nitpick: I believe any lawsuit would have to be for slander (or defamation of character), as libel is the written word. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/29 "2009-09-03T15:27:15Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Well, it certainly didn’t kill Gerry Studds career – he was re-elected 6 times after he was censured for this. And the former page (then 28) campaigned for him in some of those re-election campaigns. Well, presumably it was a bigger deal for him to give up some ass than to give up his vote. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/30 "2009-09-03T15:27:20Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > By my count, there are two out members of congress and one highly suspected. Three out members of Congress. Frank, Baldwin, and Polis. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/31 "2009-09-03T15:30:58Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > So if I pray for you to die, and if they can prove I think prayer works that way,\* that such prayer is likely to cause your death, how am I not guilty of attempted murder. I understand it opens up a huge can of worms, but the logic seems inescapable. Perhaps, but the common law and the Model Penal Code (which largely dispenses with impossibility defenses) provides an escape hatch. MPC § 5.05(2) retains one particular type of impossibility defense and allows relieving the accused of criminal liability when the conduct “is so inherently unlikely to result or culminate in the commission of a crime that neither such conduct nor the actor presents a public danger.” The textbook example of this is the case of using a voodoo doll to bring one’s enemy to an untimely end (by a person who genuinely believes in the efficacy of voodoo). Although this is a criminal objective, the means used are so implausible that the law will not punish it. Likewise, praying that God smite your opponents, however much you might believe that God will indulge your petition, does not give rise to attempt liability for homicide. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/32 "2009-09-03T15:36:00Z")
What about praying to Chuck Norris? ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/33 "2009-09-03T15:52:46Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Three out members of Congress. Frank, Baldwin, and Polis. Alright, 0.75%. I missed Polis, and the “half” is Dreier. Clearly they have increased their recruitment drive. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/34 "2009-09-03T15:59:06Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Alright, 0.75%. I missed Polis, and the “half” is Dreier. Clearly they have increased their recruitment drive. And until 2006, the pastor’s own state had a gay Congressman…Jim Kolbe. They’re everywhere, man! ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/35 "2009-09-03T16:15:42Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Alright, 0.75%. I missed Polis, and the “half” is Dreier. Clearly they have increased their recruitment drive. Don’t forget [Lindsey Graham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsey_Graham). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/36 "2009-09-03T16:38:02Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Don’t forget [Lindsey Graham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindsey_Graham). 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/37 "2009-09-03T16:57:32Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Second, the person making the statement must KNOW it’s false… looks like a lawsuit would fall apart right here. Right, because to win Frank would have to prove that Anderson is not a fucking loon. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670/38 "2009-09-03T17:06:28Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Right, because to win Frank would have to prove that Anderson is not a fucking loon. 😉 Mental impairment is not traditionally a defense to tort liability. And even if it were an affirmative defense, the burden of proof would be on the party asserting it: the Reverend Anderson. (I really hope **RNATB** is paying attention, if he plays his cards right, he’ll graduate Order of the Coif.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-a-valid-suit-if-barney-frank-sued-steve-anderson-for-libel/508670.md?page=1)