# Would it be fair to ask Palin a Kitty Dukakis question about her daughter? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 8, 2008, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657 "2008-09-08T19:01:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/61 "2008-09-09T05:06:37Z")
What scares me about Rapturists is that they don’t care if the world ends. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/62 "2008-09-09T13:38:32Z")
> [@Spiritus\_Mundi](#): > > Once again, you demonstrate only that you have no idea what position I espoouse. I have nothing that could reasonably be construed as declaring that a person was not responsible for the results of their inaction. I’ve cut out the rest, because, frankly, I cannot be bothered to respond to someone who obfuscates to such a degree. I am going to spend the rest of the day doing that, but at least I will get a pay check in return. Your absolute is that a woman who choses to abort a fetus that is the product of rape (assuming everyone accepts that fetus has the same rights as the mother) is a monster. You claim this is one situation that can be analyzed by you, allowing you to morally judge the person. It’s NOT a single situation. That woman, or that girl, may be in very different situations and thaty pregnancy may affect her in multiple different ways. And those effects on that individual woman or girl are relevant to the consideration of the ethics of that decision. Or, to put it in your terminology, of whether this rape victim is “a monster.” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/63 "2008-09-09T13:48:47Z")
> [@Spiritus\_Mundi](#): > > Would it be fair? In the sense that a similar question was asked to a Democratic in the past, sure. In the sense that it is a pertinent question for a political debate in that it might shed further light on a candidates qualifications, policies, or beliefs? No. Putting the “personal” touch to the question adds nothing to the debate but a sense of sordid curiosity and emotional baggage. Palin;s policies, personal beliefs, and qualifications can be discussed, even attacked, without turning a Vice-Presidential debate into the Jerry Springer Show. > > “But what is your teenage daughter was raped . . .” Whatever follows is irrelevant. The question is disgusting. But the Republicans did it to Dukakis, and it worked. Howzabout the Democrats do stuff that works for a change, however distasteful to the hand-wringing crowd? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/64 "2008-09-09T14:35:14Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > No, _based on this particular study_, DS fetuses are aborted in 92 percent of cases _in which parents have chosen amniocentesis_. It says nothing of parents, such as you, who decline amnio. > > According to the citations [here](http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1794693), the overall abortion rates for fetuses diagnosed wtih DS in the US cities for which they are known are _less than 50 percent_. You would in fact expect that those who _do not test for Downs_ will not abort for Downs; unless the fetus is so deformed that they end up knowing about Downs because of routine ultrasound, they do not have advance knowledge so as to be _able_ to abort. Many people do not do amnio, not because they are morally against abortion in such cases, but because of the non-trivial risks. We did a non-invasive screening for that reason. The relevant statistic is surely for the purpose of debate the number of people who, with full knowledge that they are carrying a child with Downs, _decide_ to abort or not to abort. For that purpose, the study I cited is surely more relevant. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/65 "2008-09-09T14:48:45Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > You would in fact expect that those who _do not test for Downs_ will not abort for Downs; unless the fetus is so deformed that they end up knowing about Downs because of routine ultrasound, they do not have advance knowledge so as to be _able_ to abort. > > Many people do not do amnio, not because they are morally against abortion in such cases, but because of the non-trivial risks. We did a non-invasive screening for that reason. > > The relevant statistic is surely for the purpose of debate the number of people who, with full knowledge that they are carrying a child with Downs, _decide_ to abort or not to abort. For that purpose, the study I cited is surely more relevant. While your point is valid, I think it should also be pointed out that many people choose not to get the amnio because they’ve already decided that they’re going to have the baby no matter what, so there’s no reason to undergo the test. I wonder if the stats might suggest only that people who decide _a priori_ that they will terminate a DS pregnancy are far more likely to get amnio in the first place. I had a converstaion with my wife about this last night. I posted before that she’d had the amnio test for her current pregnancy (8 months along). I guess I was wrong. She had mntioned something about her doctor suggesting it, and since I don’t go to all her OB/Gyn appointments with her, I’d assumed she done it (because I sometimes don’t really listen when she’s talking at me. You know how it is). She told me she skipped it not only this time but the last time because it didn’t make any difference to her, so why bother. That makes me wonder if a majority take that attitude, and skip the test altogether. That would make sense to me. Either that or we have an awful lot of hypocrites calling themselves pro-lifers. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/66 "2008-09-09T14:59:43Z")
> [@](#): > > I’ve cut out the rest, because, frankly, I cannot be bothered to respond to someone who obfuscates to such a degree. You have an amusing view of reality. Do you even know what he word obfuscate means? > [@](#): > > Your absolute is that a woman who choses to abort a fetus that is the product of rape (assuming everyone accepts that fetus has the same rights as the mother) is a monster. No. My specific judgment upon the given facts in this hypothetical example is that Palin would be a monster to argue that her daughter shoudl kill an innocent human being in order to avoid the emotional and physical burdens of carrying the baby to term. It is a very specific ethical evaluation. “Absolute” is another word that you seem not to have difficulty using correctly in a sentence. > [@](#): > > You claim this is one situation that can be analyzed by you, allowing you to morally judge the person. Only through implication, actually. I haven’t made any claims about the abilty o form ethical judgments. However, I will make one now: **Any situation can be analyzed ethically, and the results of that analysis form the basis of judgment.** From your statment above, you would appear to disagree with that statement. Are you of the camp that pretends no ethical judgments are possible? That woudl be an amusing turn to this little farce, given how often you have made declarations that one thing is or is not ethically equivalent to another. > [@](#): > > It’s NOT a single situation. Now you are just being silly. It is exactly a single situation. One. Unitary. If you want to argue for further contextual nuances that might affect the decision to kill someone, then feel free to do so. Perhaps someone else will even care enough to answer you. I was answering the OP. The OP proposed a singular hypothetical case. > [@](#): > > That woman, or that girl, may be in very different situations and thaty pregnancy may affect her in multiple different ways. And those effects on that individual woman or girl are relevant to the consideration of the ethics of that decision. Actually, she may only be in one situation. The details of that situation, beyond the hypothetical rape and the non-hypothetical fact that she comes from a financially stable and politically powerful family, are not specified by the OP. If you would like to posit a specific frame of additional circumstances that you feel would justify murder then go ahead and do so. If you do, you will be creating a new individual hypothetical case to evaluate. I stress this without any great hope that you will understand the point. > [@](#): > > to put it in your terminology, of whether this rape victim is “a monster.” Perhaps you should read more carefully if you are going to pretend to put things into my terminology. Here is what I wrote [ul][li]“Your daughter was raped. Would you kill an innocent person in order to spare her the emotional and physical burdens of carrying the pregnancy to term?” It would take a monster to make that choice.[/ul][/li]Here is a test of simple reading comprehension [ul][li]Who was raped?[/li][li]Who is making the choice to kill an innocent person?[/li][li]To whom does the label “monster” apply?[/ul][/li]My 7 year old could pass that test. But in fairness to you, he doesn’t know the word “obfuscate” either. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/67 "2008-09-09T15:02:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > While your point is valid, I think it should also be pointed out that many people choose not to get the amnio because they’ve already decided that they’re going to have the baby no matter what, so there’s no reason to undergo the test. I wonder if the stats might suggest only that people who decide _a priori_ that they will terminate a DS pregnancy are far more likely to get amnio in the first place. > > I had a converstaion with my wife about this last night. I posted before that she’d had the amnio test for her current pregnancy (8 months along). I guess I was wrong. She had mntioned something about her doctor suggesting it, and since I don’t go to all her OB/Gyn appointments with her, I’d assumed she done it (because I sometimes don’t really listen when she’s talking at me. You know how it is). She told me she skipped it not only this time but the last time because it didn’t make any difference to her, so why bother. > > That makes me wonder if a majority take that attitude, and skip the test altogether. That would make sense to me. Either that or we have an awful lot of hypocrites calling themselves pro-lifers. No, I think you are absolutely 100% correct on this. My doctor told me that if I was not going to terminate, I should not have an amnio, because of the risk associated with it. For instance, I mentioned in another thread my friend who leaked fluid for months, and had to be on modified bed rest for half her pregnancy…that was due to the amnio she had. I think there is actually something like a 1% risk of miscarrying after an amnio, so it’s something that I think you want to have a very good reason for doing. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/68 "2008-09-09T15:04:57Z")
> [@Spiritus\_Mundi](#): > > Perhaps you should read more carefully if you are going to pretend to put things into my terminology. Here is what I wrote > [ul][li]“Your daughter was raped. Would you kill an innocent person in order to spare her the emotional and physical burdens of carrying the pregnancy to term?” It would take a monster to make that choice.[/ul][/li]Here is a test of simple reading comprehension > [ul][li]Who was raped?[/li][li]Who is making the choice to kill an innocent person?[/li][li]To whom does the label “monster” apply?[/ul][/li]My 7 year old could pass that test. But in fairness to you, he doesn’t know the word “obfuscate” either. So now you are changing things around - it isn’t the single scenario of Sarah Palin’s daughter, it is the general scenario of **a person’s** daughter. Ooooops. Brings a few more variables in, doesn’t it. But you are right, I was wrong in accusing you of calling all rape victims who would choose abortion monsters. Instead you think all parents of rape victims who would choose abortion(though how they would choose abortion for their child is beyond me), regardless of the specifics of the situation, monsters. I feel much better about your moral judgment now. And on edit - I don’t think moral judgments are impossible. I just don’t think they are as ridiculously easy to make regarding other people. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/69 "2008-09-09T15:16:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > While your point is valid, I think it should also be pointed out that many people choose not to get the amnio because they’ve already decided that they’re going to have the baby no matter what, so there’s no reason to undergo the test. I wonder if the stats might suggest only that people who decide _a priori_ that they will terminate a DS pregnancy are far more likely to get amnio in the first place. > > I had a converstaion with my wife about this last night. I posted before that she’d had the amnio test for her current pregnancy (8 months along). I guess I was wrong. She had mntioned something about her doctor suggesting it, and since I don’t go to all her OB/Gyn appointments with her, I’d assumed she done it (because I sometimes don’t really listen when she’s talking at me. You know how it is). She told me she skipped it not only this time but the last time because it didn’t make any difference to her, so why bother. > > That makes me wonder if a majority take that attitude, and skip the test altogether. That would make sense to me. Either that or we have an awful lot of hypocrites calling themselves pro-lifers. That is certainly a possibility. Taking an amnio requires a risk-benefit calculation - for those under 35, not taking the amnio makes most sense, because the risk of Downs is very small and so the risk of the amnio test itself isn’t worth taking. As mom gets older, that calculation changes as the risk of Downs increases. Of course there will be plenty of people who lose that particular bet. Plus, one must add in the general state of pre-natal care resources. Are such screening methods provided by the state in the US? We chose to use the non-invasive testing method, because we did not want to take the risk of the amnio test. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/70 "2008-09-09T15:23:46Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > No, I think you are absolutely 100% correct on this. My doctor told me that if I was not going to terminate, I should not have an amnio, because of the risk associated with it. For instance, I mentioned in another thread my friend who leaked fluid for months, and had to be on modified bed rest for half her pregnancy…that was due to the amnio she had. I think there is actually something like a 1% risk of miscarrying after an amnio, so it’s something that I think you want to have a very good reason for doing. Yup, the 1% figure is what I heard as well. The net result is that millions of people without any particular risk-factors (like being older) don’t get screened - not because of their views on Downs and abortion, but simply because the risk of the test itself is too great. Of course the nuchal translucency test has no risks and is almost as good, so that may change. When (and if) that test becomes widely available, it is more likely that only those who have absolutely ruled out abortion will not want it (even then, wouldn’t people want to know in advance, to prepare?) ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/71 "2008-09-09T15:42:42Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Yup, the 1% figure is what I heard as well. > > The net result is that millions of people without any particular risk-factors (like being older) don’t get screened - not because of their views on Downs and abortion, but simply because the risk of the test itself is too great. That’s true. I’d bet that virtually no one under 35 has an amnio unless there is some family history risk factor to consider, for that reason. > [@](#): > > Of course the nuchal translucency test has no risks and is almost as good, so that may change. When (and if) that test becomes widely available, it is more likely that only those who have absolutely ruled out abortion will not want it (even then, wouldn’t people want to know in advance, to prepare?) Oh, I think that a test without risks would be much more welcome for people who don’t intend to terminate. I was 40 with my last baby, so I of course had some concern over his health (I read that at that age you have a 1 in 60 chance of having a chromosomal problem of some kind). It would have been nice to know in advance, so as not to worry so much, or as you say, to prepare for any problem there may be, it just wasn’t worth risking his life over. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/72 "2008-09-09T15:44:04Z")
> [@](#): > > But the Republicans did it to Dukakis, and it worked. Howzabout the Democrats do stuff that works for a change, however distasteful to the hand-wringing crowd? You appear to be looking backward through the haze of prejudice. It was not the Republicans who asked the question. It was a reporter in a moderated debate. As to whether the Democrats should engage in dirty tricks in order to increase their own poltical power? Why stop now. Both political parties have demonstrated time and again that they will stoop to lying, cheating, mudslinging, and any other tactic that they feel gievs them an advantage in their neverending quest to amass power. Anyone who truly believes one party more virtuous than the other is either ignorant of history or blinding themselevs to fact in plain evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/73 "2008-09-09T15:55:20Z")
I WISH the Dems would resort to dirty tricks for once, at least in a Presidential election. They’re always trying to rise above everything. It never works. Take that stunt the Republicans pulled with the toy flags the other day. They went and stole a bunch of stored leftover flags from Mile High Stadium after the Obama speech and handed them out at a McCain rally claiming to have “rescued” them from a dumpster (a lie, as it turns out. They were stolen from a loading dock where thy were stored in bags and had been awaiting transfer to other events). The democrats just aren’t capable of anything that cheap, and contrived, and mean-spirited. I wish they were. They’re always getting chop-blocked by the Pubs like that, and they never give it back. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/74 "2008-09-09T16:21:16Z")
> [@](#): > > So now you are changing things around - it isn’t the single scenario of Sarah Palin’s daughter, it is the general scenario of a person’s daughter. No, I am not changing things around - you still lack both basic reading skills and reasoning ability. Let’s look at basic reading skills first: [ul][li]The word “your” is a pronoun. [/li][li]Pronouns most often have antecedants that are proper nouns, but the variations of “you” can take the generic or indefinite form, especially in casual conversation[/li][li]To understand whether “your” is acting as a generic pronoun or a personal pronoun, it is necessary to look at context.[/li][li]In this case, my sentence was clearly a direct response to **Shayna’s** sentence: _she does not even care if her own daughter is raped or molested; she’d make the child carry her rapist’s spawn._[/li][li]The clues that my entence is a respoonse to hers are perhaps too subtle for you, but one hint would be to look for the nice box labeled **“quote”** right above my text.[/li][li]The same process, applied to **Shayna’s** sentence, makes it clear that the antecedant to her personal pronoun “she” is found in the sentence _“Palin said she would support abortion only if the mother’s life was in danger”_[/li][li]So, in this case “your” is clearly not being used as a generic but refers to a question directed specifically at Sarah Palin.[/li][li]You know - **just like it says in the bloody OP!** [/ul][/li]See - that sin’t so hard. No lets look at basic reasoning. [ul][li]“Now you are changing things around” directy imlpies 2 things: a position in time (now) and a difference in something (change)[/li][li]You wrote the above, in direct response to my calling to your attention the words that I had actually written way back in [post 17](http://boardstest.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=10169750&postcount=17) of this thread.[/li][li]Since my statment was a direct quote of my original post, it cannot be a “change”[/li][li]Since my statement was originally made at the very beginning of our this amusing little farce, it clearly fails the test for “now”[/li][li]Ergo - the quality of your reasoning remains thoroughly consistent. I suppose some might consider that a virtue.[/ul][/li] > [@](#): > > Ooooops. Indeed. > [@](#): > > Brings a few more variables in, doesn’t it. Not to those who are able to read with comprehension and reason with a modicum of vigor. > [@](#): > > But you are right, I was wrong in accusing you of calling all rape victims who would choose abortion monsters. Indeed you were. Some people might use this moment of insight to apologize to another human being for misrepresenting their view. > [@](#): > > Instead you think all parents of rape victims who would choose abortion(though how they would choose abortion for their child is beyond me), regardless of the specifics of the situation, monsters. And now you are wrong again. How shocking. > [@](#): > > And on edit - I don’t think moral judgments are impossible. So - are now agreeing that “this is one situation that can be analyzed by you, allowing you to morally judge the person?” Or do you think only this specific moral judgment is impossible? > [@](#): > > I just don’t think they are as ridiculously easy to make regarding other people. As easy as what? Has someone in this thread argued that the ethical analysis was easy or teh factors involved trivial? Or are you talking to the voices in your head again? ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/75 "2008-09-09T16:35:15Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I WISH the Dems would resort to dirty tricks for once, at least in a Presidential election. They’re always trying to rise above everything. It never works. Take that stunt the Republicans pulled with the toy flags the other day. They went and stole a bunch of stored leftover flags from Mile High Stadium after the Obama speech and handed them out at a McCain rally claiming to have “rescued” them from a dumpster (a lie, as it turns out. They were stolen from a loading dock where thy were stored in bags and had been awaiting transfer to other events). The democrats just aren’t capable of anything that cheap, and contrived, and mean-spirited. I wish they were. They’re always getting chop-blocked by the Pubs like that, and they never give it back. I suggest you try reading some of the political analysis of Chicago voting during the kennedy/Nixon election. Or perhaps go all the way back to 2000 and ask youself why the Democrats initially pushed for a complete and consisten recount rather than cherry-picking only those districts where they expected to gain an advantage. I don’t know whether things would have turned out differently had they made their initial appeals based on a ethical concern for fairness across the board, but that is clearly not the directin they chose to go. In the current situation, I do not know how much of this may be attributed to the party, but the number of personal attacks on flimsy evidence that were launched against Sarah Palin in the first few days after she came to national attention certainly do not appear to me to be teh tactics of a group trying to “rise above everything”. In my jugment, it is quite the opposite. Which is a shame, since there are planty of more substantive reasons to criticize Sarah Palin as a candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/76 "2008-09-09T18:32:12Z")
> [@Spiritus\_Mundi](#): > > Would it be fair? In the sense that a similar question was asked to a Democratic in the past, sure. In the sense that it is a pertinent question for a political debate in that it might shed further light on a candidates qualifications, policies, or beliefs? No. Putting the “personal” touch to the question adds nothing to the debate but a sense of sordid curiosity and emotional baggage. Palin;s policies, personal beliefs, and qualifications can be discussed, even attacked, without turning a Vice-Presidential debate into the Jerry Springer Show. > > “But what is your teenage daughter was raped . . .” Whatever follows is irrelevant. The question is disgusting. Bullshit. A young girl getting raped is disgusting. Forcing her to carry that baby is disgusting. Asking a politician about it is not disgusting. We shouldn’t put a personal twist on the question? Why the fuck not? For the person who got raped, it is extremely personal. And Palin wants to stick her fucking religious nose right into that girl’s personal decision. So you’re damn right she should be asked the question in a personal way, because for every single person it pertains to it is extremely personal. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/77 "2008-09-09T18:42:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I still find it hard to believe that in a culture as rabidly anti-abortion as the US I don’t have data for this, but I’m pretty sure the average US citizen _isn’t_ against abortion when his or her personal butt is on the line for a baby or child support, particularly a baby with problems. Sure, they’re against _other people_ having abortions, because it’s nasty, and you know _those people_ can’t be trusted to act morally, and should keep the child. But when it’s me & mine at risk, the calculus is flexible. Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2008, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/78 "2008-09-09T23:15:28Z")
> [@](#): > > Bullshit. A young girl getting raped is disgusting. Forcing her to carry that baby is disgusting. Asking a politician about it is not disgusting. We agree upon the first two, but not the second. Do you have anything other than anger and profanity with which to support your position? > [@](#): > > We shouldn’t put a personal twist on the question? Why the fuck not? For exactly the reasons that I wrote in my post. You even quoted the words. Would you like to see them again? **In the sense that it is a pertinent question for a political debate in that it might shed further light on a candidates qualifications, policies, or beliefs? No. Putting the “personal” touch to the question adds nothing to the debate but a sense of sordid curiosity and emotional baggage. Palin;s policies, personal beliefs, and qualifications can be discussed, even attacked, without turning a Vice-Presidential debate into the Jerry Springer Show.** I’d be happy to discuss in more detail if you would like to address any of those points rather than simply shouting over them. > [@](#): > > For the person who got raped, it is extremely personal. And Palin wants to stick her fucking religious nose right into that girl’s personal decision. So you’re damn right she should be asked the question in a personal way, because for every single person it pertains to it is extremely personal. Every policy is personal to those affected by it directly. I am not minimizing that when I note that injecting more anger, more sensationalism, and more vitriol into the political discourse is unwarranted. The question can, and hasm been asked in a way that makes Palin’s position very clear to those who care deeply about this issue. Asking it in a away that injects the rape of her child adds nothing to the debate that I find worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/79 "2008-09-10T01:51:41Z")
> [@Spiritus\_Mundi](#): > > We agree upon the first two, but not the second. When come back, bring coherence. > [@](#): > > Do you have anything other than anger and profanity with which to support your position? What position? That forcing a girl to carry a rape baby is disgusting? What kind of evidence are you looking for? ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2008, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657/80 "2008-09-10T03:45:47Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Spiritus Mundi > > We agree upon the first two, but not the second. > > When come back, bring coherence. Slip of the finger, clearly. We agree upon the first two but not the third. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-fair-to-ask-palin-a-kitty-dukakis-question-about-her-daughter/462657.md?page=5)