# Would it be illegal to use counterfeit money in a strip club? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 1, 2005, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551 "2005-09-01T04:30:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wishbone\_Ash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Wishbone\_Ash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wishbone_Ash)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/1 "2005-09-01T04:30:58Z")
Ok I am not talking about cover charges where you are receiving consideration for your money. But what about using fake dollar bills to lure strippers over to you, and get to stuff bills in their gstring. Since there is no consideration provided or any sort of agreement, would this be illegal? ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/2 "2005-09-01T04:44:47Z")
IANAL, but I think it’s fraud, and illegal. You’re inducing someone to do something (even if it’s inducing them to come over to you) with the [implicit] promise of payment with fake money. I think it’s illegal. Of course, after she slaps you silly, pours your drink over your head, and calls the bouncers over, the Secret Service will positively look like the Guardian Angels. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/3 "2005-09-01T04:46:11Z")
You are putting the bills into circulation. I don’t think the Secret Service agents booking you will be impressed by argument that it was "just stripper bait. " ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/4 "2005-09-01T04:59:56Z")
[US Code Title 18, § 472. Uttering counterfeit obligations or securities](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000472----000-.html) > [@](#): > > Whoever, with intent to defraud, passes, utters, publishes, or sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or with like intent brings into the United States or keeps in possession or conceals any falsely made, forged, counterfeited, or altered obligation or other security of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/5 "2005-09-01T04:59:53Z")
I’m guessing that the stripper could sue you for misrepresentation or somesuch. How would you like to read this headline in your local paper: **Wishbone Ash stiffs stripper with bogus roll!** :o Not cool, taking advantage of the workin’ girls. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/6 "2005-09-01T05:21:54Z")
> [@Wishbone Ash](#): > > Ok I am not talking about cover charges where you are receiving consideration for your money. But what about using fake dollar bills to lure strippers over to you, and get to stuff bills in their gstring. Since there is no consideration provided or any sort of agreement, would this be illegal? Apart from it being illegal to posess or use counterfeit currency how do you come to the conclusion that there is “no consideration provided.” ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/7 "2005-09-01T05:33:31Z")
I would say if you’re passing bills that are legitmately conterfeit…er…what I mean is a bill that can be considered a reasonable forgery of a real bill, and a real attempt to decieve, then the Feds will be interested wherever you use it. If you’re waving joke money…3 dollar bills with a picture of Bill Clinton on them, that wouldn’t be considered a real attempt at forgery, and the girl falls for it, I don’t think that would be illegal. I think that would legally be consider as a tip, and thus not something that can be legally required. Of course it would be immoral (much more immoral than looking at a girl taking her clothes off, at least according to me) and more to the point would REALLY piss off the girl and subsequently the bouncers. Which may be a bigger thing to worry about than the government. ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/8 "2005-09-01T05:37:39Z")
Why do you think strippers don’t deserve to be paid? :wally ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/9 "2005-09-01T05:41:52Z")
> [@Padeye](#): > > Apart from it being illegal to posess or use counterfeit currency how do you come to the conclusion that there is “no consideration provided.” No, I think he’s right, legally they’re tips. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/10 "2005-09-01T08:11:13Z")
> [@betenoir](#): > > No, I think he’s right, legally they’re tips. And…? Consideration is something – an act, or forbearance, or the promise thereof – done or given by one party in return for some act or promise or forebearance of another party. How does this not apply to stripper tips? ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/11 "2005-09-01T08:51:34Z")
> [@betenoir](#): > > No, I think he’s right, legally they’re tips. So I guess I can go to a restaurant and tip the waiter with fake money? ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/12 "2005-09-01T09:13:39Z")
> [@Manduck](#): > > So I guess I can go to a restaurant and tip the waiter with fake money? According to him, legally yes, as long as it’s monopoly money and not something that could be mistaken for the real thing. Of course, that would make you look like MUCH more of a jackass than simply leaving no tip at all. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/13 "2005-09-01T11:23:01Z")
How about if they’re not real breasts? ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/14 "2005-09-01T12:11:00Z")
Heck, it’s probably illegal to use counterfeit money as TP. ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/15 "2005-09-01T12:45:02Z")
Quoted by Q.E.D.: _Whoever, with intent to defraud, passes, utters, publishes, or sells … any falsely made, forged, counterfeited, or altered obligation or other security of the United States…_ “Utters”??? What the heck does “utters” mean in this context? ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/16 "2005-09-01T12:54:59Z")
[http://www.kobtv.com/snapshotskob/html/21451.html](http://www.kobtv.com/snapshotskob/html/21451.html) Here’s a case about two young men “arrested and charged with falsely obtaining services, which is a felony” when they didn’t have enough money to pay a stripper. Though if you read the story it sounds like there could be a legitimate fraud complaint the other way around since the dancer said that the dance would be $30 and the bill turned out to $2600. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/17 "2005-09-01T13:31:46Z")
> [@stuyguy](#): > > “Utters”??? What the heck does “utters” mean in this context? According to [this](http://www.lectlaw.com/def2/u016.htm) and other sources: > [@](#): > > To utter and publish a counterfeit note is to assert and declare, directly or indirectly, by words or actions, that the note offered is good. It is not necessary that it should be passed in order to complete the offence of uttering. It seems that reading out a document, although the party refuses to show it, is a sufficient uttering. The merely showing a false instrument with intent to gain a credit when there was no intention or attempt made to pass it, it seems would not amount to an uttering. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/18 "2005-09-01T13:43:03Z")
> [@stuyguy](#): > > > [@Q.E.D.](#): > > > > Whoever, with intent to defraud, passes, utters, publishes, or sells … any falsely made, forged, counterfeited, or altered obligation or other security of the United States… > > “Utters”??? What the heck does “utters” mean in this context? From the OED: > [@](#): > > utter, v. I. 2. a. To give currency to (money, coin, notes, etc.); to put into circulation; esp. to pass or circulate (base coin, forged notes, etc.) as legal tender. They also have citations such as “The prisoner was…convicted…of the offence of uttering and publishing, as true, a forged promissory note.” (This from a set of legal annals from 1825.) ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/19 "2005-09-01T14:01:35Z")
Hmmm… I remember a place in Oklahoma City not too far from the GM plant where thea ATM machine at the strip club dispensed fake money. Yeah, I’m sure there was a sign externally or a message on the ATM, but one’s _expectations_ (or beer?) of a certain behavior from an ATM causes one to not read all those damn disclaimers. The fake money, then, was good at that establishment – but you couldn’t take your leftovers and spend it at the convenience store. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/20 "2005-09-01T14:04:00Z")
> [@betenoir](#): > > No, I think he’s right, legally they’re tips. Well now, we need to draw a distinction here. A “tip” is something that you give after services have been provided. It’s a gratuity: A voluntary reward to another in exchange for a service[.] [http://www.tenantlawcenter.com/terms/g.htm](http://www.tenantlawcenter.com/terms/g.htm) When you waive the bills at the stipper, you are making an offer. In effect, you are saying: “Come here and I’ll give you my Jackson.” It is a unilateral contract, because the stripper accepts it by performance. [http://www.colinthomas.com/assets/peopleimages/bouncer-500.jpg](http://www.colinthomas.com/assets/peopleimages/bouncer-500.jpg) Of course, if the stripper comes over and discovers that you have defrauded her, the legal damages are quite small: She could recover the actual value promised, or the value of her time, effort, and lost opportunites in accepting your offer. Then again, there’s always the time-honored remedy of [self-help](http://www.colinthomas.com/assets/peopleimages/bouncer-500.jpg). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551.md?page=2)