# Would it be illegal to use counterfeit money in a strip club? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 1, 2005, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551 "2005-09-01T04:30:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/21 "2005-09-01T14:13:42Z")
Here is a good case [summary](http://courtofappeals.mijud.net/Digest/newHTML/24796721.htm) discussing uttering and publishing. (defendant was employed by a nursing home and sought promotion to the position of nursing supervisor, which required a license as a registered nurse. The defendant told her employer that she had graduated from college and had taken her nursing examination, and then presented to the employer a document which purported to be her nursing license.) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/22 "2005-09-01T14:30:10Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > …Then again, there’s always the time-honored remedy of [self-help](http://www.colinthomas.com/assets/peopleimages/bouncer-500.jpg). Love the link! ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/23 "2005-09-01T14:31:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Of course, if the stripper comes over and discovers that you have defrauded her, the legal damages are quite small: She could recover the actual value promised, or the value of her time, effort, and lost opportunites in accepting your offer. Although I suspect that she’d inform the rather large fellow at the door, and seek extra-legal redress. You could console yourself by noting that _legally_ you were in the right, as you recover in your hospital bed. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/24 "2005-09-01T15:15:31Z")
Hmm. They give you imitation sex, you give them imitation money. I’m struggling to see the ethical flaw in this. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/25 "2005-09-01T16:27:54Z")
Isn’t it illegal to simply possess it? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/26 "2005-09-01T16:34:05Z")
> [@ouryL](#): > > Isn’t it illegal to simply possess it? Yes. See my post #5 above; possession is covered as well as uttering, distribution and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/27 "2005-09-01T16:41:32Z")
If you sit at the rail, you shouldn’t think of the dollar bills as tips, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/28 "2005-09-01T17:11:09Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Hmm. They give you imitation sex, you give them imitation money. I’m struggling to see the ethical flaw in this. 😃 It may be reasonable to call a table dance imitation sex but it is still a legitimate service. Counterfeit money is not a legitimate payment or tip. ---
**Author:** ![Future\_days](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/cab0a1/32.png) [@Future\_days](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Future_days)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/29 "2005-09-01T17:23:56Z")
The density of this question is mind-blowing. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/30 "2005-09-01T18:30:24Z")
Personally, I would suspect that even the joke Clinton note would be conterfeiting (and bringing a visit from the men with black suits and earbugs) in this context. It’s one thing when you’re at the grocery store and the cashier looks over the bill to see its value, but aren’t strip clubs generally low-visibility conditions? I would imagine that a stripper sees a patron waving a piece of paper of the right approximate shape and color, and assumes (reasonably) that the piece of paper is a bill. Later, when she’s getting dressed again backstage, she’ll check all of the money and count it. In this case, I would imagine that the person waving it would be considered to be trying to pass it off as real money. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/31 "2005-09-01T18:43:18Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Personally, I would suspect that even the joke Clinton note would be conterfeiting (and bringing a visit from the men with black suits and earbugs) in this context. It’s one thing when you’re at the grocery store and the cashier looks over the bill to see its value, but aren’t strip clubs generally low-visibility conditions? I would imagine that a stripper sees a patron waving a piece of paper of the right approximate shape and color, and assumes (reasonably) that the piece of paper is a bill. Later, when she’s getting dressed again backstage, she’ll check all of the money and count it. In this case, I would imagine that the person waving it would be considered to be trying to pass it off as real money. Contrast the situation that I encountered last time I visited a strip club. It was my younger brother’s bachelor party. We went to several establishments in Windsor. Some of the clubs “encouraged” us to buy their monopoly money to tip the strippers with. I understand the reasons behind this, but in that case, it’s obviously ok to use the fake money. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/32 "2005-09-01T18:50:20Z")
I personally suspect that any stripper could differentiate real currency from fake ones at 50 feet. If there’s anything those girls are familiar with, it is currency At least that’s what I hear. 😉 If memory serves, one of the bright young scholar athletes on the Ohio State football team tried the OP’s suggestion several years ago and got busted so fast it made his head swim. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/33 "2005-09-01T18:57:28Z")
Correction: Ohio State RB Lydell Ross was suspended from the team in 2004 for using conterfeit coupons a strip club. He didn’t conterfeit US currency, he counterfeited the club’s own internal currency. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/34 "2005-09-01T19:48:43Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And…? > > Consideration is something – an act, or forbearance, or the promise thereof – done or given by one party in return for some act or promise or forebearance of another party. > > How does this not apply to stripper tips? I’m going to argue this with a lawyer? Probably not a good idea :D. What I meant was it’s not a legally binding promise…in the same sense that you can have a waiter take your order and run back and forth to the kitchen for you, with the expectation that he will be paid for that, but legally (if not ethically) you can decide not to. Of course Gfactor makes an interesting distinction between that and a strip club. I don’t know. I would have though while say, accepting the offer of a lap dance for a particular price and then stiffing them on it ( 😃 ) would be clearly illegal, the money stuffed in g-strigs on runways would be considered voluntary. There’s not a specific offer of a specific act for a specific sum…just a general tribute. At least so I imagine, I don’t spend a lot of time in strip clubs. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/35 "2005-09-01T20:03:58Z")
> [@betenoir](#): > > I’m going to argue this with a lawyer? Probably not a good idea :D. > > What I meant was it’s not a legally binding promise…in the same sense that you can have a waiter take your order and run back and forth to the kitchen for you, with the expectation that he will be paid for that, but legally (if not ethically) you can decide not to. > > Of course Gfactor makes an interesting distinction between that and a strip club. > > I don’t know. I would have though while say, accepting the offer of a lap dance for a particular price and then stiffing them on it ( 😃 ) would be clearly illegal, the money stuffed in g-strigs on runways would be considered voluntary. There’s not a specific offer of a specific act for a specific sum…just a general tribute. At least so I imagine, I don’t spend a lot of time in strip clubs. I agree the situation can be ambiguous. Recall though that contract terms can be implied by custom [Howrey LLP | Integrated Resources - Power of Attorney Templates Online](http://www.howrey.com/docs/citations/1995%20Cal.%20App.%20LEXIS%20523.htm), [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract), and a contract can be implied by gesture. [http://www.answers.com/topic/contract-1](http://www.answers.com/topic/contract-1), [http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=263&invol=188](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=263&invol=188). I suspect the tribunal before which you would find yourself would induce a timely settlement. ---
**Author:** ![Hombre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecb155/32.png) [@Hombre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hombre)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/36 "2005-09-02T00:09:52Z")
IANAL, But what came to my mind is where would you get one? If you drew some up the feds are going to be very interested. As an artist, I incorporated a painting of a bill (about 20x lifesize) and got paid a visit and was forced to “surrenender or destroy” said painting or show up in court. Probably the same goes for taking possesion of fake bills as well. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/37 "2005-09-02T00:30:11Z")
> [@Hombre](#): > > As an artist, I incorporated a painting of a bill (about 20x lifesize) and got paid a visit and was forced to “surrenender or destroy” said painting or show up in court. Is this in the US? The law allows reproductions of currency, provided the reproduction is 75% or smaller, or 150% or larger than the original and is only printed on one side. The intent here is to make the reproduction obvious as such, so that a reasonable person would not confuse the reproduction for actual currency. A blowup of 20x is clearly not an attempt to defraud, and as such, should be legal, AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![Netbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71e660/32.png) [@Netbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Netbrian)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/38 "2005-09-02T00:37:52Z")
Quick question – why do the bars/clubs in question use the “internal” currency in the first place? I have never been to an establishment like that, and can’t understand the reasoning behind the decision. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/39 "2005-09-02T00:55:40Z")
> [@Netbrian](#): > > Quick question – why do the bars/clubs in question use the “internal” currency in the first place? I have never been to an establishment like that, and can’t understand the reasoning behind the decision. Do the bars in question allow you to trade the Stripper Fun Bux back in for legal tender at the end of the night? If not, I suspect there’s part of your answer. You buy $100 in Stripper Fun Bux and you only spend say $80 of it. No refund, the club’s up $20. I wonder if perhaps the performers are only reimbursed a percentage of the SFB they collect too; if so there’s another good reason for clubs to do it. It assures them they get their agreed-upon cut of anything the performers collect. ---
**Author:** ![Hombre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ecb155/32.png) [@Hombre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hombre)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551/40 "2005-09-02T01:59:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Is this in the US? The law allows reproductions of currency, provided the reproduction is 75% or smaller, or 150% or larger than the original and is only printed on one side. The intent here is to make the reproduction obvious as such, so that a reasonable person would not confuse the reproduction for actual currency. A blowup of 20x is clearly not an attempt to defraud, and as such, should be legal, AFAIK. This was in America in the late 70’s. I’m guessing at the size. Maybe they were just intimidating me…but it worked. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-illegal-to-use-counterfeit-money-in-a-strip-club/319551.md?page=3)