# Would it be immoral to resurrect a Neanderthal from recovered DNA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 1, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493 "2009-01-01T19:08:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/1 "2009-01-01T19:08:41Z")
If technology advances tot he point we can do this with recovered DNA, should we? While the anthropological information to be gained by studying a live Neanderthal would be huge one downside (among many) would be that the “person” created would have no physically similar associates, and would probably (I’m guessing) be fairly isolated by their looks. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/2 "2009-01-01T19:26:20Z")
On the plus side, GEICO’s advertising department would be happy to hire him. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/3 "2009-01-01T19:42:42Z")
For the reasons you have offered, I would consider it unethical. That’s not quite the same as immoral, which usually has a belief system attached, and my belief system doesn’t consider cloning. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/4 "2009-01-01T19:44:30Z")
> [@astro](#): > > If technology advances tot he point we can do this with recovered DNA, should we? While the anthropological information to be gained by studying a live Neanderthal would be huge one downside (among many) would be that the “person” created would have no physically similar associates, and would probably (I’m guessing) be fairly isolated by their looks. This is a great question and would make a better movie than the “thawing frozen Neanderthal” story line. I think the scientific information gained may be worth the dubious ethics, but it would be sad to see one lone Neanderthal. Maybe if they could create a hot Neanderthal babe as well. It’d be really strange if it turns out Neanderthals were smarter and more compassionate than homo sapiens and were killed by the more “savage” species. Imagine Einstein/Gandhi with a brow ridge. ---
**Author:** ![Sr\_Siete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Sr\_Siete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sr_Siete)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/5 "2009-01-01T19:51:10Z")
Yes. Yes it would. Screw the Neardenthals, clone ME. I’m awesome. And I could use the help. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/6 "2009-01-01T20:08:09Z")
I am not sure what I think yet, but to play the under represented side of the argument: Many if not most experts believe that “we” (_Homo sapiens_) played a significant role, both directly and indirectly through competition, in driving the Neandertals to extinction. Given that, couldn’t one make the argument that our species has an ethical obligation to bring back our distant cousins if we could? This would require not just cloning one individual but cloning a small band of individuals. Yes, I’d agree that the premise would make a good basis for a novel. What would be their status relative to the rest of society? How would an newly established group interface with the rest of the world? How would their intelligence differ from ours (not per say smarter or dumber but of a different sort)? ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/7 "2009-01-01T20:09:54Z")
I think it would depend on what kind of life they need to be content, and whether that could be provided. What if it turns out that they are really only comfortable with a hunter-gatherer lifestyle? There are precious few places on Earth where you can still live that way. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/8 "2009-01-01T20:11:08Z")
Bad idea. Didn’t you guys watch _Sliders_? Oh wait, nobody did. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/9 "2009-01-01T20:13:01Z")
There are a number of other problems to consider. Is this guy going to be free to go about his business once he’s an adult? Is he a citizen of your country? Can he be tired in court? What if he or she mated with one of us and produced offspring-- what are their status? But I would think a Neanderthal would be at least as able to navigate our society as some of the more mentally challenged people today, and maybe just as well as any other person. This issue becomes trickier as you dig back further in time to resurrect individuals who could not function in society. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/10 "2009-01-01T20:22:04Z")
I believe the question of Neanderthals’ language abilities is still unsettled, is it not? That would probably be the biggest factor determining how well they could adapt. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/11 "2009-01-01T20:22:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There are a number of other problems to consider. Is this guy going to be free to go about his business once he’s an adult? Is he a citizen of your country? Can he be tired in court? What if he or she mated with one of us and produced offspring-- what are their status? > > But I would think a Neanderthal would be at least as able to navigate our society as some of the more mentally challenged people today, and maybe just as well as any other person. This issue becomes trickier as you dig back further in time to resurrect individuals who could not function in society. Not to ask an entirely silly question but how were Neanderthals language abilities compared to ours? Even if there were reasonably intelligent would they have the finely motor control of the mouth/tongue and breath control physical apparatus necessary to use spoken language as easily as we do. Does Neatherthal skeletal physiology tell us anything about this? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/12 "2009-01-01T20:32:11Z")
Some reasoned speculations for [your answer](http://news.softpedia.com/news/Neanderthals-were-too-smart-to-survive-15264.shtml) **astro** > [@](#): > > Neanderthals were the first humans who buried their dead and they developed better stone tools. It was recently discovered that they also created art figures. However, during the same period of time Homo Sapiens developed much further and faster. Relative to Homo Sapiens’ advances in stone tool making Neanderthals look like stagnating. In other words, although Neanderthals were definitely a great advance compared to Homo Erectus, their inventiveness was no match for the Homo Sapiens. But how do we resolve this with the fact that the Neanderthals were probably more intelligent than us? > > We can restate the question more precisely: “How do we resolve this with the fact that the Neanderthal individual was probably more intelligent than a modern human individual?” The cranial capacity tells us something about the individuals’ mental abilities, but it tells us almost nothing about the social aspects of life. > Studying the inventiveness of Homo Sapiens scientists have found that literally all the major innovations that have changed the way we live, from the use of fire, to agriculture, to writing etc., have developed only in a few places. For example agriculture appeared independently only in around seven places on the entire planet. All the rest of human populations that engaged in farming did it because they had learned it from somebody. Therefore, the most important aspect of inventiveness is not the ability to invent, but the ability to transmit and to preserve innovations. > > This gives us an important clue to why Neanderthals failed in the competition with Homo Sapiens. One of the most important means by which innovations are preserved and transmitted is language. Neanderthals had language themselves. This was proven in 1983 when a Neanderthal hyoid bone was found at the Kebara Cave in Israel. The hyoid is a small bone that holds the root of the tongue in place, a requirement to human speech and, therefore, its presence seems to imply some ability to speak. Recent studies found that due to the physical characteristics of Neanderthals’ hyoid and the fact that their larynx was stouter than that of modern man, the average note emitted by Neanderthals were high pitched and sharper than that of modern man. This contradicts the stereotype of Neanderthals having ape-like grunts. However, the base of the Neanderthal tongue was positioned higher in the throat, crowding the mouth somewhat. As a result, Neanderthal speech would most likely have been slow-paced and nasalized. > > The overall conclusion would be that, although Neanderthals did have the ability to speak, they were capable of articulating only a smaller number of phonemes. Jared Diamond described this limitation using the following example: imagine how many words you could say if the only sounds you were able to make were a, u, c, p. Imagine trying to say “Trinity College is a fine place to work.” All you could say were something like “Capupa Cappap up a cap capupap.” > … > > Thus, it seems that the ultimate reason behind Neanderthals extinction was not due to their mental capacities but to the shape of their larynx. So there is indeed some evidence to support speculations that vocal language was very limited in Neanderthals because of anatomic limitations and that sign language was not conducive enough to transmit cultural innovations as effectively. It may be that Neanderthals were better at analysis and memorizing but poorer at creating new ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Zygomide](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zygomide](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zygomide)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/13 "2009-01-01T20:35:34Z")
How well could a neanderthal adapt into society? I imagine that the reason they were so uncivilized was because they had no real civilization for them to adopt. If they were presented with our culture, they might just pick it up like the standard babies. Edit: I’m not saying that I think this is the case, just something I thought about. ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/14 "2009-01-01T20:44:40Z")
Interesting, **DSeid**. Personally, I’m not sure it can be assumed that they were actually smarter than us, as their brains were only a _little_ bit bigger–nothing like the difference in brain size between a _Homo erectus_ and a modern human. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/15 "2009-01-01T20:46:27Z")
Maybe they spoke tonal languages, which would give them a bigger vocab even with the limitations imposed by physiology. A bigger brain would also be useful in processing sound and pitch, just like it is in cetaceans. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/16 "2009-01-01T20:50:47Z")
An extension to the OP: What if we created an entire Neanderthal community? What if this community was situated on an isolated island, and quarantined from the rest of the world, the way the Andaman Islanders are? ---
**Author:** ![WF\_Tomba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d9b06d/32.png) [@WF\_Tomba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WF_Tomba)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/17 "2009-01-01T21:00:53Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > An extension to the OP: > > What if we created an entire Neanderthal community? > > What if this community was situated on an isolated island, and quarantined from the rest of the world, the way the Andaman Islanders are? I would not have a problem with that, as long as the island’s ecosystem would support them. But wouldn’t we still feel a strong obligation to step in and protect them from disasters that might occur, such as famines or epidemics? And what if they had a civil war–would we have a duty to try to settle it? ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/18 "2009-01-01T21:23:24Z")
> [@WF\_Tomba](#): > > I would not have a problem with that, as long as the island’s ecosystem would support them. But wouldn’t we still feel a strong obligation to step in and protect them from disasters that might occur, such as famines or epidemics? And what if they had a civil war–would we have a duty to try to settle it? We’d be obligated, sure. I believe the Indian govt. intervenes w/ the Andaman Islanders for epidemics and natural disasters. If an alien, sentient civilization recreated an isolated small city with a population of 200 k or so, and people could live the way people normally live (however you choose to define that) it would probably be better than not existing at all. Being brought into existence all alone would be awful, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/19 "2009-01-01T21:37:58Z")
If we tried to create a population, what culture would we give them? It’s not like people instinctively know how to speak, hunt, gather food, etc. These skills have to come from someone. Who teaches the first generation of Neanderthals, and what are they taught? I’m not sure it would even be possible to create a healthy population of Neanderthals without a LOT of trial and error, since we wouldn’t know what type of language they could use, what sort of social structure is natural to them, or even what nutritional needs might be different from our own. Some of those problems would resolve themselves over several generations, but not without lots of individuals suffering, and not without a lot of early intervention just to keep them alive. (Someone has to feed the first infant.) Contact with _Homo sapiens_ would inevitably affect whatever culture they eventually develop for themselves, in unpredictable ways. ---
**Author:** ![meara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@meara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/meara)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/20 "2009-01-01T22:44:04Z")
Interesting to consider how their immune systems would react to modern pathogens. We don’t have a lot of examples out there of creatures who have missed eons of co-evolution. Would modern day bugs do them in? Would their cellular structures be so old that the latest microbes wouldn’t recognize them? I’d guess the former, but who knows. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493.md?page=2)