# Would it be immoral to resurrect a Neanderthal from recovered DNA? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 1, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493 "2009-01-01T19:08:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/21 "2009-01-01T22:52:57Z")
> [@meara](#): > > Would their cellular structures be so old that the latest microbes wouldn’t recognize them? I’d guess the former, but who knows. I’m not sure the age of a “cellular structure” determines the level of primate immunity. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/22 "2009-01-01T23:26:14Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Not to ask an entirely silly question but how were Neanderthals language abilities compared to ours? Even if there were reasonably intelligent would they have the finely motor control of the mouth/tongue and breath control physical apparatus necessary to use spoken language as easily as we do. Does Neatherthal skeletal physiology tell us anything about this? There isn’t a good consensus in the scientific community on that issue. There are even lots of anthropologists who believe that we didn’t acquire “fully articulate language” until about 70k years ago, even though our species is generally thought to have appeared almost 200k years ago. I would hope that genetic information we obtain in the next decade or so will be what gets us closer to an answer to those questions. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2009, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/23 "2009-01-01T23:41:27Z")
The film [Iceman](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087452/) may be relevant to many of the issues discussed here. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/24 "2009-01-02T00:45:52Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > This is a great question and would make a better movie than the “thawing frozen Neanderthal” story line. > > I think the scientific information gained may be worth the dubious ethics, but it would be sad to see one lone Neanderthal. Maybe if they could create a hot Neanderthal babe as well. Apart from the inherent sexism of your equating Neanderthal-without-qualifier with “male Neanderthal,” how are we supposed to know what a male Neanderthal is going to consider attractive? And what if the female doesn’t think the male is attractive? ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/25 "2009-01-02T00:59:24Z")
“Yes, our group is applying for a grant to recreate an alternative subspecies of humanity, who were very likely incapable of reproducing contemporary speech, and who were almost certainly several times stronger than modern humans. We’re interested in finding out whether they possessed reasoning ability and the potential for complex culture, or if they would simply tend to go berserk like terrified animals in a mad frenzy of raping and killing. Needless to say, we’ll need funding broad enough to cover either contingency. Our collective professional opinion is that nothing could possibly go wrong.” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/26 "2009-01-02T01:08:24Z")
“Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I’m just a neanderthal.” ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/27 "2009-01-02T01:13:37Z")
I’ll give you the answer Thursday Next. ---
**Author:** ![Zygomide](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zygomide](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zygomide)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/28 "2009-01-02T03:04:03Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Apart from the inherent sexism of your equating Neanderthal-without-qualifier with “male Neanderthal,” how are we supposed to know what a male Neanderthal is going to consider attractive? And what if the female doesn’t think the male is attractive? I don’t think it was as much sexism as just the default significant other. Merely a habit of what is usually considered the ideal other gender. So, not sexism, just easier and more natural to say than “hot neanderthal of the preferred gender of the other neanderthal.” ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/29 "2009-01-02T04:08:09Z")
[Young Neanderthal girl](http://www.rdos.net/neanderthal.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/30 "2009-01-02T05:39:32Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Apart from the inherent sexism of your equating Neanderthal-without-qualifier with “male Neanderthal,” how are we supposed to know what a male Neanderthal is going to consider attractive? And what if the female doesn’t think the male is attractive? Wait, the Neanderthal is a doctor and the _mother_ of the kid in the car wreck. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/31 "2009-01-02T05:57:57Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Wait, the Neanderthal is a doctor and the _mother_ of the kid in the car wreck. Are Neanderthals familiar with acid glue? ---
**Author:** ![Nom\_de\_Plume](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/85f322/32.png) [@Nom\_de\_Plume](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nom_de_Plume)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/32 "2009-01-02T15:52:10Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Bad idea. Didn’t you guys watch _Sliders_? > Oh wait, nobody did. I liked _Sliders_. Started as a good show, but jumped the shark pretty early. Also, as **Hamlet** pointed out, author Jasper Fforde covered this ethical dilemma in his Thursday Next series. As I recall, the cloned Neanderthals seemed to be out of place in the modern world, and the cloned Mammoths also caused some destruction in Great Britain during the migratory season. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/33 "2009-01-02T16:30:50Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The overall conclusion would be that, although Neanderthals did have the ability to speak, they were capable of articulating only a smaller number of phonemes. Jared Diamond described this limitation using the following example: imagine how many words you could say if the only sounds you were able to make were a, u, c, p. Imagine trying to say “Trinity College is a fine place to work.” All you could say were something like “Capupa Cappap up a cap capupap.” > … I’ve a hard time buying this part of your cite. Neanderthals having a more limited speech ability because their brain was different? Maybe. But because they could only articulate a limited number of phonemes? No way. They would find a way around in quick order. A previous poster mentioned tones, but they could as well have used for instance whistles or gestures. Not only they could have, but they would have, if they were similar to us. Deaf people can easily learn a complex language like ASL that doesn’t use any sound at all. And not only can they learn it, but even if it’s not taught to them, they will make up their own sign language if a number of them live together. A limited ability to articulate a variety of sounds might be an evidence of a lack of a complex language, but it can’t possibly be its cause. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/34 "2009-01-02T16:35:54Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Apart from the inherent sexism of your equating Neanderthal-without-qualifier with “male Neanderthal,” how are we supposed to know what a male Neanderthal is going to consider attractive? And what if the female doesn’t think the male is attractive? I can’t believe you’re being so homophobic as to assume that the Neanderthal-without-qualifier is automatically heterosexual, and that DanBlather wasn’t thinking of a lesbian couple. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/35 "2009-01-02T16:39:27Z")
Nitpick: it wouldn’t be resurrecting a Neanderthal, it would be creating a new Neanderthal with genes identical to a Neanderthal that once lived. Those aren’t the same thing. You might not get as much anthropological data as you’d like. Problem is, things like culture and language are learned, and there would be nobody to teach those things to a cloned Neanderthal. You would learn something about what Neanderthals were capable of in terms of language and culture, but not what they actually did. Expecting a cloned Neanderthal to reproduce a Neanderthal language and culture (presumably there were several) exactly like one that existed in the past would be like cloning a person from the body of someone who lived during the Roman Empire and expecting them to speak Latin and practice Roman culture. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/36 "2009-01-02T16:45:03Z")
As far as communication is concerned, how well could a Neanderthal text-message or use a Blackberry? I bet that with some very sophisticated electronics and software, the electronic speech thingies that survivors of laryngeal cancer patients use could be modified to enable a Neanderthal to enunciate a wider range of sounds. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/37 "2009-01-02T17:07:35Z")
There would be something learned, **Anne** , by the Neanderthal’s living physiology: what could she eat, how fast could she run, how good is her hearing, how long is her natural lifespan, etc. Although it would be difficult to draw broad conclusions from a single individual, it would certainly be a stronger data point than we have today. Of course, then we put two Neanderthals in a gladiatorial cage match to see how well they battle to the death. Somebody cue the “Star Trek” fight music. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/38 "2009-01-02T17:16:29Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I’ve a hard time buying this part of your cite. Neanderthals having a more limited speech ability because their brain was different? Maybe. But because they could only articulate a limited number of phonemes? No way. They would find a way around in quick order. A previous poster mentioned tones, but they could as well have used for instance whistles or gestures… Well, like I said it was a just a source for “reasoned speculations” … Actually I thought **Belowjob2.0** ’s point was very good the moment I read it. It is also true that the gene most thought to be associated with language capacity in humans, [FOXP2](http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/10/071018-neandertal-gene.html), is present in Neanderthals. And there is great reason to believe that [gestural language](http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/feature/1999/2/the-gestural-origins-of-language/1) preceded spoken language in the hominid line. But it does suggest which extant language environments would be most apt to raise a Neanderthal\* in. Probably exposed simultaneously to both a tonal language and to some version of sign. As to diet, we know they were big meat eaters - and required many calories. And we know they were more cold than warm weather adapted. The question of why they lost out to the upstart _Homo Sapiens_ is still an interesting one. Was their intelligence just a less flexible/creative sort (certainly we all have experienced that the creative types often have different sorts of intelligence than those highly skilled in detailed analysis) or was evolution acting at the level of the group - _Homo Sapiens_ was first to create a larger cultural organization, a meta-organism of sorts, that allowed individuals with the same or lesser cognitive capacity to benefit more from a wide variety of individual inputs - and Neandertals didn’t organize in response fast enough? _Or is it Neander_t\*al? I read it both ways with _Science_ usually dropping the h. Such as in [this article.](http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/sci;306/5693/40?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=neandertal&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/39 "2009-01-02T17:33:02Z")
Taxonomy is conservative, and the spelling shouldn’t change just because the modern language changed. It’s _Homo neanderthalensis_, so I favor Neanderthal. Also, “Neanderthal” has become an English word, even if it’s root is in German. English doesn’t have regular spelling reforms. But that’s just MHO. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2009, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493/40 "2009-01-02T17:34:15Z")
> [@Fish](#): > > There would be something learned, **Anne** , by the Neanderthal’s living physiology: what could she eat, how fast could she run, how good is her hearing, how long is her natural lifespan, etc. Although it would be difficult to draw broad conclusions from a single individual, it would certainly be a stronger data point than we have today. Sure, you’ll get some of that. But you shouldn’t expect to get information about Neanderthal language and culture, since those things were learned. You won’t even reliably get information on what sounds Neanderthals couldn’t make after the new Neanderthal grows up, since they might go through something similar to what modern humans do. We’re born able to make and distinguish sounds that don’t occur in our native language, but we lose that ability sometime in childhood. The cloned Neanderthal is going to be raised by someone who speaks some language, and might pick up at least some of that language, so the same thing might happen to her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-immoral-to-resurrect-a-neanderthal-from-recovered-dna/479493.md?page=3)