# Would it be Legal to Close a Store Preemptively (Labor Action) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 17, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933 "2015-04-17T20:11:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/1 "2015-04-17T20:11:45Z")
It seems that Walmart has closed several stores very abruptly. The explanations given sound, odd: They had significant plumbing issues, and will have to close for six months. Now, given the simplicity of a Walmart store, and the fact that one of the stores was a top-10 for sales in the US, it seems hard to imagine that they would close them for routine plumbing repairs, or that they would need six months to make said repairs. The whole thing is… odd. One of the running theories is that each of these stores has seen action on the part of labor, and Walmart is closing them either preemptively or punitively WRT labor actions at the stores. My GQ is this: -Would it be legal to close a store to prevent labor action, such as unionization? -Would it be legal to close a store as a means of retaliation against employees who took part in actions? Would it matter if those actions were simply demonstrations on the employees’ own time? I’m just curious because while the plumbing reason doesn’t seem to hold water, I would think that any other reason will only make things worse once it comes out- and it always does, especially with a “love to hate” target like Walmart. Here’s an example of coverage. Google for more, but the coverage runs from “isn’t that odd” to “See, Walmart IS EVIL” > **[Walmart fired 2,200 to fix the plumbing](https://money.cnn.com/2015/04/16/news/companies/walmart-closing-plumbing/)** > > Five Walmart stores across the country have been temporarily closed for repair. All workers were notified Monday that they would lose their job immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/2 "2015-04-17T20:15:54Z")
[Walmart has done this before.](http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-unionized-wal-mart-workers-win-supreme-court-victory-1.2689646) ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/3 "2015-04-17T20:19:27Z")
I would think they could close a store for whatever reason they want, at least in the US. Go try and prove that it was because they wanted to thwart a labor union. The fact that they came up with a reason at all is unnecessary. IOW, they don’t have to give a reason. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/4 "2015-04-17T20:23:54Z")
Maybe they don’t HAVE to, but they’re a publicly traded company. Without an explanation the stock price might take a hit. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/5 "2015-04-17T20:47:51Z")
Well, it beats throwing in flaming oil-soaked rags and standing on top of the inferno shouting: _“ **Now** try and take it away from me !”_ ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/6 "2015-04-17T21:15:56Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Maybe they don’t HAVE to, but they’re a publicly traded company. Without an explanation the stock price might take a hit. I don’t think closing a store, or even a few stores, is going to effect the stock price. Walmart has over 11,000 stores worldwide. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/7 "2015-04-17T21:19:54Z")
Labor action? Hell, I’ve seen people on Facebook proclaiming that this is the preparation for [martial law](http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/martialsigns.asp)! I hate to be reasonable about this, but if there really are severe plumbing problems, and given that those big box stores are built on slabs, it’s entirely possible that Wal-Mart will need to empty the store out, turn off the water, tear up the slab, do whatever underground repairs are needed, repair the floor, clean up all the dust, then restock the store. We’re talking something larger than what your average Joe the Plumber can tackle. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/8 "2015-04-17T21:36:27Z")
Retaliation against attempted unionization is completely illegal. It’s also a time-honored tactic of American business. One for which prosecution is rare, and successful prosecution almost unheard of. I have no clue what’s really going on with Walmart, but those are some answers to the OP’s questions. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/9 "2015-04-17T22:12:18Z")
> [@dolphinboy](#): > > I don’t think closing a store, or even a few stores, is going to effect the stock price. Walmart has over 11,000 stores worldwide. So? Suddenly closing stores without explanation, including one of the best performers, is still going to invite scrutiny, quite possibly negative. Far easier to make up some shit about plumbing instead of saying “We have 11,000 stores, we don;t have to explain!” THAT sounds bad. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/10 "2015-04-18T01:43:10Z")
I think in some jurisdictions it would be illegal to openly state that you were closing a store to prevent the employees from unionizing (or to retaliate against employees who have unionized). But in order to prosecute a business for this, you have to prove unionization was the cause. So when employees unionize and their store is subsequently closed, the reason given will be something unrelated. You can choose to believe the business and accept it’s a coincidence or you can feel the business is lying. And Walmart shouldn’t be singled out. The same accusations are made against [Target](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/22/target-valley-stream-closing-union_n_1371114.html). ---
**Author:** ![breezman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@breezman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/breezman)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/11 "2015-04-18T02:32:22Z")
In 1994, Walmart supposedly closed their store in Tuskegee overnight, trucking out the whole inventory, with no advance notice to local employees. I say _supposedly_ because it has an urban legend-type sound to it, but I’ve heard it by word-of-mouth around Montgomery and there’s some mention of it on the internet. > **[The Tuskegee Experiment Part II: Wal-Mart Moves into Washington D.C. and Chicago](http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2011/02/tuskegee-experiment-part-ii-wal-mart.html)** > > Wal-Mart. We’ve talked about this company before ( Black Friday twice, cheaper prices for unwanted goods , braving the back of the line , P... [http://freetuskegee.blogspot.com/2005/01/tuskegee-wal-mart.html](http://freetuskegee.blogspot.com/2005/01/tuskegee-wal-mart.html) ---
**Author:** ![Mdcastle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/958977/32.png) [@Mdcastle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mdcastle)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/12 "2015-04-18T02:51:19Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Maybe they don’t HAVE to, but they’re a publicly traded company. Without an explanation the stock price might take a hit. More than your employees getting the idea they can unionize and demand higher wages? ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/13 "2015-04-18T04:21:48Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Retaliation against attempted unionization is completely illegal. It’s also a time-honored tactic of American business. Yes and no. I worked at one school district where if a teacher was caught talking about unionizing they were fired immediately. There’s actually a process involved if you want “I want to start a union.” protection. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/14 "2015-04-18T14:35:15Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Yes and no. I worked at one school district where if a teacher was caught talking about unionizing they were fired immediately. There’s actually a process involved if you want “I want to start a union.” protection. I’d like to see a cite that such action is legal. Just because there is a process doesn’t mean not following said process is a firing offense. Especially for the government. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2015, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/15 "2015-04-18T17:24:34Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Labor action? Hell… > I hate to be reasonable about this, but if there really are severe plumbing problems it’s entirely possible that Wal-Mart will need to empty the store out. We’re talking something larger than what your average Joe the Plumber can tackle. Well then… Joe the Plumber would need to get a permit from the city, right? But according to [ABC news,](http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local-news/i-team-investigates/i-team-official-says-sudden-wal-mart-closing-was-suspicious) NO requests for permits have been made. And in one location (Midland, Texas), a municipal plumbing inspector was sent away when he visited the closed store and offered to help secure permits. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/16 "2015-04-19T16:27:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’d like to see a cite that such action is legal. Just because there is a process doesn’t mean not following said process is a firing offense. Especially for the government. You have to file paperwork with the NLRB to get protection. [The process of “starting a union” is](http://www.nlrb.gov/resources/faq/nlrb#t38n3188) > [@](#): > > To start the election process, a petition must be filed with the nearest NLRB Regional Office showing interest in the union (or interest in decertifying the union) from at least 30% of employees. NLRB agents will then investigate to make sure the Board has jurisdiction and there are no existing labor contracts that would bar an election. More information is available on our Conduct Elections page. In other words, telling a co-worker, “We should start a union.” is not protected even though it is a necessary step to start the process. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/17 "2015-04-19T16:59:48Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > In other words, telling a co-worker, “We should start a union.” is not protected even though it is a necessary step to start the process. But in the movie [Norma Rae](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norma_Rae), the entire plot was based on Sally Fields telling her coworkers “we should start a union”. And she won an Oscar, so it has to be true. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/18 "2015-04-20T00:12:27Z")
In Quebec, it would be totally illegal. That didn’t stop them from shutting down a store several years after the employees voted to start a union. Of course, they made up some reason, but there was no doubt intended as a warning: you want to leep your jobs, don’t unionize. ---
**Author:** ![SpyOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@SpyOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpyOne)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/19 "2015-04-20T01:48:29Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Labor action? Hell, I’ve seen people on Facebook proclaiming that this is the preparation for [martial law](http://www.snopes.com/politics/conspiracy/martialsigns.asp)! > > I hate to be reasonable about this, but if there really are severe plumbing problems, and given that those big box stores are built on slabs, it’s entirely possible that Wal-Mart will need to empty the store out, turn off the water, tear up the slab, do whatever underground repairs are needed, repair the floor, clean up all the dust, then restock the store. We’re talking something larger than what your average Joe the Plumber can tackle. I worked in a convenience store where we needed our drains replaced - a combination of age and jackasses pouring chemicals down the drains had done them in. This required jackhammering through the slab to get at all the drain pipes. We never closed. Sure, the store smelled like a sewer, and overnight there were boards so folks could walk over the trenches in the floor (like right in front of the soda fountain), and it must have been even more fun during the day when the work was happening, but the store stayed open. Store was part of a major national chain, too, so this wasn’t a small owner desperate to stay afloat. So on the one hand, I can easily imagine “plumbing problems” that will require massive amounts of work, on the other hand, it seems a bit suspicious that they’d close. HOWEVER, there are a few infrastructure failures that REQUIRE one to close. For example, I worked in a restaurant where the hot water heater failed. We had to close until the new one was installed (a matter of hours) because the Health Department insisted that if we didn’t have faucets that could provide water at least 75 degrees for washing hands and utensils, we were closed. Maybe Walmarts have to have working bathrooms, so they have to be closed until they can get the toilets hooked up again. Something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2015, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933/20 "2015-04-20T04:05:21Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > In Quebec, it would be totally illegal. That didn’t stop them from shutting down a store several years after the employees voted to start a union. Of course, they made up some reason, but there was no doubt intended as a warning: you want to leep your jobs, don’t unionize. This is case mentioned by **Sunspace** in post # 2. Ultimately, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled in favour of the workers and ordered Walmart to pay damages to all of the workers who lost their jobs, in addition to the severance payments, but it took 10 years to get that order. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-be-legal-to-close-a-store-preemptively-labor-action/717933.md?page=2)