# Would it bother you if avatars were allowed, but off by default? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 4, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045 "2010-10-04T20:20:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Weedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/weedy/32/301_2.png) [@Weedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weedy)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/201 "2010-10-07T00:33:28Z")
I don’t want avatars on this board for the exact reason a lot of people seem to want them. They will make posters more identifiable, people will remember who is who much better. My guess is this will lead to cliques, inside jokes, one line backwards-and-forwards, bickering, feuds, throwing up of past threads, etc. This already happens with identifiable posters, but there are only a handful now, so it’s not too bad. As more posters become identifiable to each other, the tone and culture of the board will change, making it more social, harder to keep up with and less open to newcomers or infrequent posters. People who want to use the internet to socialise have a bazillion sites where they can do that. I don’t see why they have to do it here. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/202 "2010-10-07T00:34:33Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Ick. That would seem to fall square into the category of “compromise that leaves everyone unhappy”. Well, I would be happy 🙂 I don’t care so much about uploading a cool image just so someone can say “Hey, where did you get that?” and then I have to admit “Oh, I don’t know, just by chance when googling for something or other”. I just think images (and I guess I’m thinking icons more than avatars), will make threads with more than 2 participants easier to follow. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/203 "2010-10-07T00:44:22Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > People who want to use the internet to socialise have a bazillion sites where they can do that. I don’t see why they have to do it here. For me (and I suspect most others), it’s not a matter of “socializing”–it’s a matter of keeping track of who is saying what. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/204 "2010-10-07T01:59:53Z")
> [@Weedy](#): > > I don’t want avatars on this board for the exact reason a lot of people seem to want them. They will make posters more identifiable, people will remember who is who much better. My guess is this will lead to cliques, inside jokes, one line backwards-and-forwards, bickering, feuds, throwing up of past threads, etc. This already happens with identifiable posters, but there are only a handful now, so it’s not too bad. As more posters become identifiable to each other, the tone and culture of the board will change, making it more social, harder to keep up with and less open to newcomers or infrequent posters. People who want to use the internet to socialise have a bazillion sites where they can do that. I don’t see why they have to do it here. You aren’t really all that familiar with this place, are you? ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/205 "2010-10-07T03:54:02Z")
```auto OOOOOOOO /---\ O O | * * | Hey folks! O [O] [O] O | --- | I'm RaftPeople's O O \___/ Avatar's Avatar O o O O O O [_____] O Yep, that's my new Avatar O O OOOOOOOO ``` ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/206 "2010-10-07T03:55:44Z")
RaftPeople, what are your rates for in-avatar ads? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/207 "2010-10-07T03:58:22Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > > [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > > > If folks still feel that way, then I can see how they kinda want to keep the environment as it is. They don’t want it to change, overall. They think that everyone else having avatars will change the atmosphere to the point where the wittiest and the funniest and the smartest are crowded out by the cat lovers and the cornballs and the childish, etc. They think the overall tone of the board will change. So it’s not about them seeing the avatars. It is about them feeling like they are in a certain kind of club when they may really be in a circus. > > While I think you’re likely right, I’m afraid your “whoring” just makes me wonder when Starving Artist will stop using his mind-control rays. > > ETA: Uh, not on you. You advocated worthily! I’m sure **Nzinga, Seated** will sleep more soundly tonight knowing that you approve of the way she presented her opinion. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/208 "2010-10-07T04:00:43Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > RaftPeople, what are your rates for in-avatar ads? ```auto OOOOOOOO /---\ O O | * * | We're glad you asked! O [O] [O] O Yep, super glad! | --- | O O \___/ Do you want to use O o O mini-Avatar? O O Or do you prefer a more O [_____] O traditional ad over here on O O standard Avatar? OOOOOOOO ``` ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/209 "2010-10-07T04:03:10Z")
I’m not gauche. I’ll take the tasteful mini-avatar. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/210 "2010-10-07T04:10:59Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’m not gauche. I’ll take the tasteful mini-avatar. ```auto OOOOOOOO /---\ O O | * * | Ok, send me the text O [O] [O] O | --- | of your ad and this O O \___/ space is yours, cheap! O o O O O O [_____] O Hey folks, space available here O O OOOOOOOO ``` ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/211 "2010-10-07T04:18:45Z")
“I just got back from the dope, and all I got was this lousy avatar.” Um. No offense. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/212 "2010-10-07T04:33:10Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > > [@Weedy](#): > > > > I don’t want avatars on this board for the exact reason a lot of people seem to want them. They will make posters more identifiable, people will remember who is who much better. My guess is this will lead to cliques, inside jokes, one line backwards-and-forwards, bickering, feuds, throwing up of past threads, etc. This already happens with identifiable posters, but there are only a handful now, so it’s not too bad. As more posters become identifiable to each other, the tone and culture of the board will change, making it more social, harder to keep up with and less open to newcomers or infrequent posters. People who want to use the internet to socialise have a bazillion sites where they can do that. I don’t see why they have to do it here. > > You aren’t really all that familiar with this place, are you? Actually, methinks I’ve been whooshed. At least, I hope so. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2010, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/213 "2010-10-07T04:37:50Z")
```auto OOOOOOOO /---\ O O | * * | "I just got back from O [O] [O] O | --- | the dope and all I O O \___/ got was this lousy O o O Avatar." O O Mini, I want you to be --jsgoddess O [_____] O selective with your ads, O O we've got standards. OOOOOOOO ``` ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/214 "2010-10-10T22:25:16Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Ok. I’m going to take a stab at this as the devil’s advocate. Or let’s just keep it real and drop the euphemisms; the devil’s whore. > > I think the anti-avvies treasure what they consider a certain…mood of this board. Like a club. > > I know it is ‘cool’ to laugh at those that find the Dope smart or special or different than most of the net…but for some, I guess it feels that way. > > When I first found the Dope, I didn’t have any other group of people I could ‘be around’ that I thought were all concentrated in one place so witty and funny and smart and fun. Maybe I’m just a dork and sucker and a fool for feeling that way, but for me, the feeling was real. > > If folks still feel that way, then I can see how they kinda want to keep the environment as it is. They don’t want it to change, overall. They think that everyone else having avatars will change the atmosphere to the point where the wittiest and the funniest and the smartest are crowded out by the cat lovers and the cornballs and the childish, etc. They think the overall tone of the board will change. So it’s not about them seeing the avatars. It is about them feeling like they are in a certain kind of club when they may really be in a circus. I agree with what you’ve written to this point. But there’s another aspect here as well: those of us who are against avatars can’t see for the life of us what they could possibly add to this board. And that’s not because we haven’t seen other message boards with avatars; it’s because we _have_ seen other boards with avatars. And we don’t really like what we saw. SDMB doesn’t have to be for everyone. It’s ok to try to build a culture here that only appeals to some people. It’s not at all like denying marriage to homosexuals as suggested upthread. (That was truly the worst analogy in this thread, NYT fonts and neighborhoods in decline notwithstanding.) And part of that culture is that our humor and off-beat posts are driven by clever writing, not goofy avatars. The avatar question, for a lot of us, is that they seem to add nothing, while posing a risk of changing the culture here. That culture change would be visible to everyone - you can turn avatars off, but you can’t turn the culture of the board off - and we don’t think that risk is worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Barchetta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Red\_Barchetta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Barchetta)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/215 "2010-10-10T22:45:24Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > And that’s not because we haven’t seen other message boards with avatars; it’s because we _have_ seen other boards with avatars. And we don’t really like what we saw. Did you ever consider that avatars had nothing to do with how those boards turned out? Myriad examples have already been posted of boards that match, if not exceed the SDMB on an intellectual level which supported avatars, while other examples have demonstrated plenty of boards without avatars that operate on a juvenile level ( /b, GameFaqs, etc). > [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > The avatar question, for a lot of us, is that they seem to add nothing, while posing a risk of changing the culture here. That culture change would be visible to everyone - you can turn avatars off, but you can’t turn the culture of the board off - and we don’t think that risk is worth it. What proof do you have that board culture would change in any meaningful way, besides whatever apparent bias which lead to that conclusion? ---
**Author:** ![Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/do_not_taunt/32/2968_2.png) [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Do_Not_Taunt)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2010, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/216 "2010-10-10T23:01:20Z")
> [@Red\_Barchetta](#): > > Did you ever consider that avatars had nothing to do with how those boards turned out? Of course I’ve considered this. However, I think a board like Giraffe Boards is probably the closest analogues to SDMB. I’ve found that board a little more juvenile in its culture, and prefer to spend my limited message board reading time here. I can’t prove that’s because of avatars, but it does seem avatars create a feeling on that board that is missing here, to SDMB’s benefit. > [@](#): > > What proof do you have that board culture would change in any meaningful way, besides whatever apparent bias which lead to that conclusion? I have no proof, nor am I required to provide any to have an opinion and participate in a poll. My fear, in which I suspect I am not alone, is that this is possible. And there is no benefit in allowing avatars. Risk with no reward makes a poor gamble. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/217 "2010-10-11T00:35:02Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > And there is no benefit in allowing avatars. Risk with no reward makes a poor gamble. There are benefits to allowing avatars. I think the opponents of avatar functionality have the assumption that the only reason for having avatars is to show off a pwitty picture (that’s not an original creation). As I’ve already mentioned, I think avatars make following complex conversations easier. For example, I’ve read all of this thread, and yet I don’t recall if **Do Not Taunt** posted on any of the preceding pages. I can go back, and Ctrl+F, or perhaps a nested view would help (though I doubt it). But on sites with avatars I can keep a mental track of the participants in a thread, and their positions, much more easily. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/218 "2010-10-11T01:19:00Z")
> [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > Of course I’ve considered this. However, I think a board like Giraffe Boards is probably the closest analogues to SDMB. I’ve found that board a little more juvenile in its culture, and prefer to spend my limited message board reading time here. I can’t prove that’s because of avatars, but it does seem avatars create a feeling on that board that is missing here, to SDMB’s benefit. No, the culture on GB is different because A)they have a different set of rules for behavior, B)the culture there arose out of completely different circumstances and C) saying I can’t prove that A causes B but I’ll assume it anyway is not persuasive. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/219 "2010-10-11T01:32:13Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > > [@Do\_Not\_Taunt](#): > > > > And there is no benefit in allowing avatars. Risk with no reward makes a poor gamble. > > There are benefits to allowing avatars. I think the opponents of avatar functionality have the assumption that the only reason for having avatars is to show off a pwitty picture (that’s not an original creation). > > As I’ve already mentioned, I think avatars make following complex conversations easier. Would avatar advocates still be interested if the images were locked so that changing them was comparable to changing names (i.e., happening rarely and only for cause)? ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2010, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045/220 "2010-10-11T01:38:43Z")
It’s dumb for the usernames and it would be dumb for avatars. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-bother-you-if-avatars-were-allowed-but-off-by-default/556045.md?page=12)