# Would it have killed you to actually call an Orthodox Rabbi? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 16, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015 "2005-05-16T03:01:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/21 "2005-05-16T13:50:04Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Anyone else hear the thread title in their head read by Jackie Mason? Who was an Orthodox Rabbi, btw. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/22 "2005-05-16T14:04:26Z")
Seems like they could have gotten a lot of drama out of a rabbi trying to convince the patient to take the valve, under the circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/23 "2005-05-16T14:26:35Z")
> [@](#): > > but there is a general consensus of a final persecution by AntiChrist rulers/systems to be ended by the return of Jesus to end the world & judge all humanity. The Anti-Christ, in ny case, does not necessarily refer to any specific individual. And secondly, we may already be in such a time (and possibly have been practically since Jesus died). But we don’t specifically know how anything going’s to happen, and the End Times as such don’t exist for us. ---
**Author:** ![Scott\_Plaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Scott\_Plaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scott_Plaid)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/24 "2005-05-16T14:29:22Z")
> [@whiterabbit](#): > > Seems like they could have gotten a lot of drama out of a rabbi trying to convince the patient to take the valve, under the circumstances. 😕 But… It would just consist of a rabbi enumerating exactly why a person can break any rule of judaism, should it be necessary to save a life, and the patient holding his hands over his ears and going “\*La-la-la. \* I can’t hear you! \*La-la-la. \*” ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/25 "2005-05-16T14:44:29Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > You think this show got it wrong, you should see what _Revelations_ is doing to Catholicism. Oy vey. They have a nun reeling of “Left Behind” psychobabble like that has anything to do with Catholicism. But the actress is gorgeous! ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/26 "2005-05-16T15:02:14Z")
> [@Scott\_plaid](#): > > 😕 But… It would just consist of a rabbi enumerating exactly why a person can break any rule of judaism, should it be necessary to save a life Minor nitpick: You can break _almost_ any rule - but not quite every rule. There are three major exceptions: 1. Murder - i.e. you cannot murder Joe (an innocent who is not threatening anyone) to save your own life. 2. Sexual Immorality - you cannot sleep with someone to save your own life (unless, of course, that person is permitted to you 🙂 ) 3. Idolatry - you can convert to another religion or worship any other being/power to save your life. But as for the rest - Shabbos, kashrus, etc., you are not only allowed to violate these rules but in fact are _required_ to do so. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/27 "2005-05-16T15:33:26Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > 1. Sexual Immorality - you cannot sleep with someone to save your own life (unless, of course, that person is permitted to you 🙂 ) When exactly would this come up? I mean, what circumstances were people imagining when this rule was devised? “Sleep with me or you’re dead!” ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/28 "2005-05-16T15:35:43Z")
> [@Dewey Finn](#): > > When exactly would this come up? I mean, what circumstances were people imagining when this rule was devised? “Sleep with me or you’re dead!” It’s a lot easier to image from the female perspective. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/29 "2005-05-16T15:48:05Z")
I have pretty much the same nitpicks with “House”. I love the show, it’s very entertaining, but would it kill them to get a doctor or two on staff as consultants? The most egregious example of this was from an episode where Dr. House suspected a woman of having different fathers for her children, other than her husband. He tells the woman that her green-eyed babies couldn’t come from two brown-eyed people (her and her husband), which just isn’t true. My husband says Dr. House was just putting the woman on to get her to admit to infidelities, but I think he could have used accurate science to do that. Heck, my two brown-eyed parents had my green-eyed older sister, and we’re pretty sure there was no hanky-panky there. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/30 "2005-05-16T15:51:21Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Minor nitpick: You can break _almost_ any rule - but not quite every rule. There are three major exceptions: > \ > 3. Idolatry - you can convert to another religion or worship any other being/power to save your life. > \ > > Zev Steinhardt You _can_ convert, or did you just miss the “not”? I’m confused. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/31 "2005-05-16T15:56:02Z")
Sorry about that. I missed the not. Thanks for catching that. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![irishgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/8edcca/32.png) [@irishgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/irishgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/32 "2005-05-16T16:00:37Z")
Didn’t watch the show (I don’t watch any medical shows, except Scrubs, for this exact reason) but didn’t someone suggest a mechanical valve? They last longer than bioprosthetics anyway. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/33 "2005-05-16T16:01:41Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > So, would it have been so difficult for one of the producers to actually pick up the phone and call a rabbi and confirm this before going ahead with the story line? I heard they tried calling on a Friday night but nobody answered. If they can’t be bothered to pick up the phone… 😉 drop “I already asked that question” zone ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/34 "2005-05-16T16:01:52Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > Didn’t watch the show (I don’t watch any medical shows, except Scrubs, for this exact reason) but didn’t someone suggest a mechanical valve? > > They last longer than bioprosthetics anyway. Not that I recall. They did mention, however, that the bovine valve would last longer than the porcine one - so the issue of durability did come up. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/35 "2005-05-16T16:09:50Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > How would a bovine heart valve fit onto a human heart? I’ve seen those suckers (the hearts, not the valves specfiically) in the market, and they’re HUGE! P’r’aps it was from a very small cow… ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/36 "2005-05-16T16:14:45Z")
IIRC correctly, I opened a GQ thread about exactly this same issue, if using pig organs in people is against any sort of kosher rules. Wouldn’t surprise me if **zev** was who answered. (I can’t do a proper search, since “pig” \< 4 letters) So they didn’t even have to call a Rabbi, they could have asked here! ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/37 "2005-05-16T16:36:06Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > IIRC correctly, I opened a GQ thread about exactly this same issue, if using pig organs in people is against any sort of kosher rules. Wouldn’t surprise me if **zev** was who answered. (I can’t do a proper search, since “pig” \< 4 letters) > > So they didn’t even have to call a Rabbi, they could have asked here! It is nice having our own personal Staff Rabbi, innit? Maybe we should get him something nice as a thank you. Perhaps a nice ham for Easter? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![inkleberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f17d59/32.png) [@inkleberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/inkleberry)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/38 "2005-05-16T17:09:46Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > I just finished watching tonight’s episode of Grey’s Anatomy. I happen to like the show - it’s entertaining and fun to watch. > > Tonight’s episode featured a young Orthodox Jew who needed a heart valve replacement. Of course, the first option presented is a porcine valve replacement, which the young patient refuses. In the end, the doctor finds a bovine valve and everyone lives happily ever after. However, before the bovine valve was an option, the patient indicated that she would not have the surgery with a porcine valve - under any circumstances - even if it meant her death. > > Of course, none of this is within normative Jewish law on several counts and a simple call to an Orthodox (or even a Conservative or Reform) Rabbi would have confirmed this. > > 1. The prohibition regarding non-kosher animals refers to eating - nothing more. There is nothing wrong with taking pig insulin, using a porcine heart valve or even using soap made from pigs. > > 2. Even if the pig-product had to be eaten, one would not only be allowed to but _required_ to take it to save one’s life. A Jew is not allowed to allow him/herself to die rather than take a pig product. > > So, would it have been so difficult for one of the producers to actually pick up the phone and call a rabbi and confirm this before going ahead with the story line? > > Zev Steinhardt Arrrrrgh!!! I hate that! BTW, lambskin condoms are not actually considered “food,” even if you use them for oral, and thus ingest/suck them somewhat. You may merrily eat cheese whilst servicing your friend, for all the kashrut laws care. Yes, I did speak to an Orthodox Rabbi with this question. Sometimes they’d rather have you _not_ call, it turns out. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/39 "2005-05-16T17:48:20Z")
Zev, you silly, you! How many shows have you seen in which they get their facts right. Facts make for lousy television, sure, we reasonably smart people get mad and scream at the TV, but we are in the minority here. Most people are content with how the drama is presented. And don’t get me started on Revelations. I don’t mind them butching the Catholic Dogma, what I hate is their stereotypical portrayal of the “atheist that is mad at god”. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/40 "2005-05-16T18:01:45Z")
I was thinking the same thing while watching - why wouldn’t they call the family’s rabbi and get clarification? I figured in a life-or-death case it would be okay. > [@featherlou](#): > > \ > He tells the woman that her green-eyed babies couldn’t come from two brown-eyed people (her and her husband), which just isn’t true. … > Heck, my two brown-eyed parents had my green-eyed older sister, and we’re pretty sure there was no hanky-panky there. :dubious: I wonder how my browned-eyed husband and my browned-eyed self had a blue-eyed child. Maybe it was the recessive genes of both our blue-eyed mothers. :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015.md?page=3)