# Would it have killed you to actually call an Orthodox Rabbi? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 16, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015 "2005-05-16T03:01:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BigDummy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee59a6/32.png) [@BigDummy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigDummy)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/41 "2005-05-16T19:05:08Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > Didn’t watch the show (I don’t watch any medical shows, except Scrubs, for this exact reason) but didn’t someone suggest a mechanical valve? > > They last longer than bioprosthetics anyway. They did bring it up before the pig valve. I don’t remember the specifics, but they said she couldn’t support a mechanical valve for some reason. Couldn’t tell you whether the reason was BS or not. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/42 "2005-05-16T19:21:14Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > So, would it have been so difficult for one of the producers to actually pick up the phone and call a rabbi and confirm this before going ahead with the story line? > > Zev Steinhardt Consider Fox’s ‘Moon Hoax’ show. I doubt that an astronomer, or anyone from NASA was consulted… ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/43 "2005-05-16T20:11:05Z")
**Zev** , recall that the young patient called herself an orthodox jew, but her parents were reform jews. They never instructed her in the finer points of the law, and she’s probably relying a lot more on her own deficient knowledge and judgement than the child of orthodox jews would. That said, I only watched the first half of that episode, and I assumed that either they would introduce a rabbi who would correct the girl’s misunderstanding, or introduce an alternative that wouldn’t offend her. When dealing with teenage zealots, what the law allows is often not a solution. ---
**Author:** ![photopat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e95f7d/32.png) [@photopat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/photopat)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/44 "2005-05-16T20:12:15Z")
I didn’t know about the kosher error, but I was annoyed by the “psychic” plot thread. The whole episode really seemed to be about how wrong skeptics are to not have faith. Even the part about the spinal cord thingie that didn’t show up on the MRI. Now, I can accept that a doctor with plenty of experience and familiarity with a condition might be ready to trust his experience over a test that could miss something. I mean, maybe the position of the clot caused it to be missed in the scan. Fine. But, when a guy claiming psychic visions was shown to have a brain tumor that caused him seizures why did the show have to go all X-files and suggest that the visions were real, when it could have been very well written if the guy had simply had to cope with learning that his “gift” was a hallucination? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/45 "2005-05-16T20:37:36Z")
Buhhht…everybody knows The Jews control the media (even Marlon Brando said so). How, _how_ could this have happened? ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/46 "2005-05-17T00:19:48Z")
I have a question, **Zev**. Sorry if it seems horribly ignorant, but I’m rather uninformed about the rules within the various denominations of Judaism. The young girl said she was Orthodox, and asked for a rabbi before her surgery. When they showed the rabbi praying with her right before the surgery, it was a female rabbi. Does the Orthodox faith allow for female rabbis? I know Reform does, but do the more tradition forms of Judaism women to ebcome rabbis? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/47 "2005-05-17T00:24:38Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > Have you spoken to many nuns lately? It’s years since I heard any of them speaking about traditional Catholic dogma. They’re almost all obsessed with various psychobabble, Myers Briggs, Wicca, etc. That was a whoosh. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/48 "2005-05-17T00:35:30Z")
> [@BiblioCat](#): > > The young girl said she was Orthodox, and asked for a rabbi before her surgery. When they showed the rabbi praying with her right before the surgery, it was a female rabbi. Does the Orthodox faith allow for female rabbis? I know Reform does, but do the more tradition forms of Judaism women to ebcome rabbis? The Reform and Conservative Movements have female rabbis. The Orthodox movement(s) do not. > [@nametag](#): > > Zev, recall that the young patient called herself an orthodox jew, but her parents were reform jews. They never instructed her in the finer points of the law, and she’s probably relying a lot more on her own deficient knowledge and judgement than the child of orthodox jews would. Not to get crazy defensive here, but Reform =! unobservant, you know. We have rabbis and shuls and Hebrew school, too. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/49 "2005-05-17T00:55:23Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > The Reform and Conservative Movements have female rabbis. The Orthodox movement(s) do not. However, the hospital may have been only able to procure her a Reform or Conservative Rabbi, especially on short notice. (I know it’s bloody difficult to get a Wiccan Priestess at our local hospital, and we’re in a large urban area with a huge Wiccan community. When I asked for one (actually I asked for any neopagan, and suggested Wicca might be easiest to find) I got a lot of stalling and stammering. My name is now on file with the hospital as clergy to call for Wiccan and neopagan patients who request it.) So would it be appropriate for the patient to pray with a Reform Rabbi, or does that fall under the procription against following another religion? ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/50 "2005-05-17T02:12:09Z")
The actress playing the Rabbi is herself a Rabbi in real life ([cite](http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/25863/format/html/displaystory.html)). She would know the answer is to save the life. How bloody annoying. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/51 "2005-05-17T03:38:42Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > Didn’t watch the show (I don’t watch any medical shows, except Scrubs, for this exact reason) but didn’t someone suggest a mechanical valve? > > They last longer than bioprosthetics anyway. The girl had Von Willebrand’s disease, a bleeding disorder, they felt the artifical valve would be contraindicated. I don’t know much about Jewish law but it looked to me like it was more about a snotty teenager than religion. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/52 "2005-05-17T03:51:24Z")
> [@BiblioCat](#): > > I have a question, **Zev**. Sorry if it seems horribly ignorant, but I’m rather uninformed about the rules within the various denominations of Judaism. > > The young girl said she was Orthodox, and asked for a rabbi before her surgery. When they showed the rabbi praying with her right before the surgery, it was a female rabbi. Does the Orthodox faith allow for female rabbis? I know Reform does, but do the more tradition forms of Judaism women to ebcome rabbis? Yes, I noticed that it was a female Rabbi too. As others have pointed out, Orthodox Judaism does not recognize female Rabbis. However, in reality, there is no need to have a Rabbi “bless” one in such situations - anyone can say a prayer for the sick (which is what the Rabbi recited in the operating room). Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/53 "2005-05-17T05:46:15Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Not to get crazy defensive here, but Reform =! unobservant, you know. We have rabbis and shuls and Hebrew school, too. Well, of course, but my impression of these particular parents was that they were minimally observant – based, as I said, on just the first half of the show. After all, Christians have ministers, Sunday school, and more, but there’s some shocking ignorance of dogma, history, and other denominations. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/54 "2005-05-17T06:17:13Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Minor nitpick: You can break _almost_ any rule - but not quite every rule. There are three major exceptions: > > 1. Murder - i.e. you cannot murder Joe (an innocent who is not threatening anyone) to save your own life. > > 2. Sexual Immorality - you cannot sleep with someone to save your own life (unless, of course, that person is permitted to you 🙂 ) > > 3. Idolatry - you can convert to another religion or worship any other being/power to save your life. > > But as for the rest - Shabbos, kashrus, etc., you are not only allowed to violate these rules but in fact are _required_ to do so. > > Zev Steinhardt Question-can an Orthodox Jew have a DNR order, or a living will? (I’m thinking of the Schiavo case, naturally). Can a person never refuse medical treatment then, if they’re old and in a lot of pain and just don’t feel up to aggressive treatment? ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/55 "2005-05-17T06:34:39Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > I have pretty much the same nitpicks with “House”. I love the show, it’s very entertaining, but would it kill them to get a doctor or two on staff as consultants? The most egregious example of this was from an episode where Dr. House suspected a woman of having different fathers for her children, other than her husband. He tells the woman that her green-eyed babies couldn’t come from two brown-eyed people (her and her husband), which just isn’t true. My husband says Dr. House was just putting the woman on to get her to admit to infidelities, but I think he could have used accurate science to do that. > > Heck, my two brown-eyed parents had my green-eyed older sister, and we’re pretty sure there was no hanky-panky there. I thought that she had at least one blue-eyed as well as at least one green-eyed child, which would not be possible with two brown-eyed parents. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/56 "2005-05-17T11:51:49Z")
> [@Snooooopy](#): > > I thought that she had at least one blue-eyed as well as at least one green-eyed child, which would not be possible with two brown-eyed parents. Yes it would. The major gene is for “brown” or “not-brown”. Whether the “not-brown” shows up green, blue, yellow or purple (I’ve seen all of them) depends on other genes, which can be passed by any eye colored parent. The only time you can strongly suspect hanky-panky based on eye color is if two blue-eyed people have a brown-eyed child. With any other combination, any result is possible. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/57 "2005-05-17T12:53:17Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Question-can an Orthodox Jew have a DNR order, or a living will? (I’m thinking of the Schiavo case, naturally). Can a person never refuse medical treatment then, if they’re old and in a lot of pain and just don’t feel up to aggressive treatment? To be perfectly honest, I’m not certain of the answer. Your best bet would be to contact your Local Orthodox Rabbi. Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![asrivkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9d8465/32.png) [@asrivkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asrivkin)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/58 "2005-05-17T13:11:52Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Minor nitpick: You can break _almost_ any rule - but not quite every rule. There are three major exceptions: > > [snip] > > 1. Idolatry - you can [not] convert to another religion or worship any other being/power to save your life. > > Zev Steinhardt Hang on. I seem to remember learning about the Marranos (Jews in Spain who converted under the pressure of the Inquisition but secretly practiced Judaism anyhow) in Hebrew School back in the day. I don’t remember them being mentioned in a negative light, as I might expect if they broke one of the three biggies. Is Christianity/Islam different from idolatry in this case, or do more Orthodox histories see them as awful people? ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/59 "2005-05-17T13:16:00Z")
Thanks, **Kyla**. And **Zev**. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/60 "2005-05-17T15:04:21Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > It’s a lot easier to image \<\\> from the female perspective. > > Zev Steinhardt But not impossible to imagine from the male. Joseph and the wife of Potiphar. Granted he only ended up in prison, but if she could’ve got him killed, what doubt that she would? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015.md?page=4)