# Would it have killed you to actually call an Orthodox Rabbi? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 16, 2005, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015 "2005-05-16T03:01:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2005, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/81 "2005-05-18T22:01:32Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Did anyone catch Law and Order last night? There was a mish-mash of Jewish stuff mixed in with an organ selling ring for blackmarket kidneys, but I digress. A woman who was killed was in love with an Orthodox Jew and she displayed that love by having his name _tatooed on her ankle_. There was all sorts of stuff that just didn’t feel right in that episode. > > Richard Belzer plays a Jewish detective, and his character is the authority on all things Jewish on the show. If the tattooee isn’t Jewish, where’s the issue? Maybe she’s insensitive to his religious tenets, but it doesn’t go against Jewish law for a non-Jew to have a tattoo, AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/82 "2005-05-19T02:32:13Z")
> [@Portia](#): > > If the tattooee isn’t Jewish, where’s the issue? Maybe she’s insensitive to his religious tenets, but it doesn’t go against Jewish law for a non-Jew to have a tattoo, AFAIK. True, and I didn’t catch whether they explicitly said if she was Jewish. But the Orthodox Jew was with her and wanted to marry her, which would imply to me that she was Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/83 "2005-05-19T03:36:54Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > Then yes, if it comes down to sleeping with a married woman (who isn’t your wife, obviously) or death, then a Jew must choose death. > > Zev Steinhardt What about rape-as in, your attack has a gun to your head, and resisting would be fatal-would that count as a time when you should choose death? (Note-I’m NOT attacking Judaism, I just find these discussions fascinating). ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/84 "2005-05-19T03:40:57Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What about rape-as in, your attack has a gun to your head, and resisting would be fatal-would that count as a time when you should choose death? (Note-I’m NOT attacking Judaism, I just find these discussions fascinating). :smack: That’ll learn me not to read the whole thread before asking a question. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/85 "2005-05-19T04:28:41Z")
> [@zev\_steinhardt](#): > > You’re free to disbelieve. > > As I mentioned, in Judaism, in most cases, one can dispense with most of the laws to save one’s (or another’s) life. But when it comes to the Big Three (idolatry, murder and sexual immorality), then the laws are quite firm. You’re welcome to disagree - but that’s the _halacha_ (Jewish law). > > Zev Steinhardt However… okay, the woman isn’t brave enough, and submits rather than die. What happens afterwards? I’m guessing that it isn’t a matter of ‘damned for all time no matter what.’ Most religions understand that humans are weak and have escape clauses. Like, if you sincerely repent/do some sort of penance/undergo some purification ritual/promise not to do it again/whatever then God will forgive your sin,’ yes? ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2005, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015/86 "2005-05-19T04:41:49Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > However… okay, the woman isn’t brave enough, and submits rather than die. What happens afterwards? I’m guessing that it isn’t a matter of ‘damned for all time no matter what.’ Most religions understand that humans are weak and have escape clauses. Like, if you sincerely repent/do some sort of penance/undergo some purification ritual/promise not to do it again/whatever then God will forgive your sin,’ yes? For starters, except for the most evil (think: Hitler-type) Judaism doesn’t have a “damned for all time” afterlife belief. Even one who willingly violates any of the Big Three isn’t “damned for all time.” In any event, I’m certain that when it comes time to give account for one’s actions, God takes into account circumstances and every person’s mental states. On a personal level, I find it hard to harshly condemn someone who does anything at the point of a gun (that’s why I refused to condemn the Conversos earlier in this thread). In Judaism, most sins (even the Big Three when done willingly and certainly when done under duress) can be forgiven through repentence - which consists of three steps: 1. Verbally admitting the wrongdoing to God 2. Regretting the wrong that was done. 3. Resolving not to repeat the sin. Zev Steinhardt [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-have-killed-you-to-actually-call-an-orthodox-rabbi/304015.md?page=4)