# Would it look or be good for Obama to withdraw Sotomayor's nomination? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 28, 2009, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913 "2009-05-28T09:49:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/221 "2009-06-02T16:51:23Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > However, the right wing, those that are opposing Sotomayer, hate activist courts and think that they are WRONG. Which is hypocritical of them to condemt Sotomayer for this, as if she had went for an activist ruling, they would have condemned her for that. Damnd if you do and damnd if you don’t. Not quite. The overwhelming majority of the right who rail against activist judges have no clue what activist judges are, and are completely results oriented in their jurisprudence. However programs that help minorities get struck down, or however discrimination against gays is enshrined, or however Presidents get ‘elected’ is OK by them, and the opposite, even if clearly mandated by the constitution, is “judicial activism.” ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/222 "2009-06-02T17:07:53Z")
What’s truly funny is she is not nearly as liberal as they make her out to be. There are many on the left who fear she may be too moderate. Why the Right is fighting this battle is beyond me, they gain nothing from it. It seems to me to be a knree jerk reaction to oppose anything Obama does and in reality to deny that he was elected by a majority of the voters. I truly believe that many on the right livein a fantasy land that think the American people do not agree with Obama on anything and they were duped into voting for him. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/223 "2009-06-02T17:49:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > We have explained this over and over. Is it that you refuse to listen or you dont understand? At this point, it certainly sounds like a little of both. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/224 "2009-06-02T22:17:05Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You don’t know what you are talking about. The issues are not up for review by the appeals court. Yes, they are and that’s per the dissenting judge’s comments. ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/225 "2009-06-02T22:40:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, they are and that’s per the dissenting judge’s comments. The dissenting judge is on the losing side. His opinions are \*not \*the law. The opinion of the majority is the law. But generally speaking, if an appellant comes before an appeals court and says, for example, “my conviction should be overturned because the jury selection was unfair,” the appellate court will not examine whether evidence was improperly admitted during the trial. This would be an issue “not raised on appeal,” and wouldn’t be touched. At most, they will examine the question of whether the jury selection was proper or not. In fact, they will often look for a way to avoid getting even to that question, like finding that the appellant doesn’t have the right to appeal for some technical reason (wrong court, wrong time, whatever). An appeals court that decided, in my hypothetical, to look at whether evidence had been improperly admitted would be precisely the kind of activist court that conservatives criticize. The court was not asked to rule on the admissability of the evidence - they went there because they wanted to meddle in something that they hadn’t even been asked to look at. Bad court! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/226 "2009-06-02T23:23:44Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, they are and that’s per the dissenting judge’s comments. Right–and has been pointed out to you, he was dissenting because he was one judge who believed it was correct to discuss the issue, when six judges believed it was not correct to discuss the issue. What, besides rabid partisanship, leads you to believe the authority of the one judge in order to dismiss the authority of the six judges? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/227 "2009-06-03T00:35:55Z")
> [@Left Hand of Dorkness repling to Magiver](#): > > What, besides rabid partisanship, leads you to believe the authority of the one judge in order to dismiss the authority of the six judges? Because the jihadists of the American right believe that they are right in all cases, that God is on their side and you are hell-bound, that women should be enslaved to their husbands (barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen no less), that if you’re not for 'em you’re agin 'em, that protection of the Fatherland justifies all means, that the subject races shouldn’t question their betters, that you’re an unAmerican, God-hating, fag-loving Commie, and finally, that that brown bastard in the White House should never have won the election and even be in a position to appoint that brown bitch to the United States Supreme Court. And no actual evidence will ever convince them to the contrary. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/228 "2009-06-03T00:54:43Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Because [a list of absurd stereotypes] > > And no actual evidence will ever convince them to the contrary. First, I recognize the danger of a No True Scotsman here: if I point out American rightwingers, even folks who are hardline rightwingers, who don’t fit your ridiculous stereotypes, you might dismiss them as not the jihadists you were looking for. Lemme know if that’s the game, please. Second, I wonder what evidence would convince you that your stereotypes are incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/229 "2009-06-03T02:24:17Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Second, I wonder what evidence would convince you that your stereotypes are incorrect. How about if just once, you (the general you, not you specifically) judge something, not by its idealogical provenance, but by objective fact? The topic of this thread is a great case in point. Everyone in this thread that has any legal knowledge at all has repeatedly stated that Sotomayor made a fully justified, narrowly-crafted, non-activist decision as part of a unanimous committee of three. Yet, according to a number of people attacking her, not only was it HER decision, what she should have done is gone well beyond her mandate and legislated from the bench! Had this been a ‘Roe v. Wade’ case appeal with the matter at appeal being a narrow issue of law and had she chosen to go beyond it to retry the facts of the case in contravention of a clearly stated law (as Magiver is insisting that she should have done), the same people that are railing at her for this would be screaming for her blood. Tell me I’m wrong, LHOD, tell me I’m wrong. And yes, my post painted with a broad brush, but until “moderate” right-wingers start denouncing this needlessly partisan misrepresentative bullshit, well, they’re your bedmates, you live with 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Tyrrell\_McAllister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tyrrell_mcallister/32/16772_2.png) [@Tyrrell\_McAllister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tyrrell_McAllister)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/230 "2009-06-03T11:56:33Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > And yes, my post painted with a broad brush, but until “moderate” right-wingers start denouncing this needlessly partisan misrepresentative bullshit, well, they’re your bedmates, you live with 'em. Wait, why are you waiting for right-wingers to denounce your own post? ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/231 "2009-06-03T17:41:02Z")
There’s a very good article in the [CSM](http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/06/03/sotomayor-on-tape-what-she-said-in-firefighter-race-case/) about the case and Judge Sotomayer’s role in it, which (among other things) appears to contradict various assertions made by posters to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/232 "2009-06-03T18:22:36Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > There’s a very good article in the [CSM](http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/06/03/sotomayor-on-tape-what-she-said-in-firefighter-race-case/) about the case and Judge Sotomayer’s role in it, which (among other things) appears to contradict various assertions made by posters to this thread. Which assertions does it contradict, and in each of these assertions, whose assertion is the correct one? ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/233 "2009-06-03T19:04:25Z")
Slight hijack: I don’t know if this has been posted, but apparently the Republican fearmongers are now the ones backtracking: [Gingrich backs off racist comments](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31080516) This in addition to high ranking Reps in Congress saying that the right wing furor over Sotomayor’s perceived racism was wrong seems to put the issue now squarely in their court: Doesn’t it look bad for the Reps to withdraw their racist comments? ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/234 "2009-06-03T19:23:10Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Doesn’t it look bad for the Reps to withdraw their racist comments? Seems to me that Newt’s flip flop is nothing short of a display of weakness in the face of his enemies. Next he needs to roll over on his back and display his throat. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/235 "2009-06-03T20:23:56Z")
> [@Early\_Out](#): > > The dissenting judge is on the losing side. His opinions are \*not \*the law. The opinion of the majority is the law. The case is going before the SC. Back in her days as a prosecutor she was on the board of the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund which fronted a similar case in Marino v. Ortiz which was struck down. The same group sued at the last minute over New York’s voting rules. There is absolutely no doubt that she is a Latino activist which severely limits her ability to act impartially. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/236 "2009-06-03T20:30:25Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Slight hijack: > > I don’t know if this has been posted, but apparently the Republican fearmongers are now the ones backtracking: > > [Gingrich backs off racist comments](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31080516) > > This in addition to high ranking Reps in Congress saying that the right wing furor over Sotomayor’s perceived racism was wrong seems to put the issue now squarely in their court: Doesn’t it look bad for the Reps to withdraw their racist comments? For what it’s worth, even Rush is suggesting he might now support Sotomayor: [http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090603/pl\_politico/23290](http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20090603/pl_politico/23290) However, he’s not taking the wimp’s way out by withdrawing his cries of ‘reverse racism’ - he stands by them. Instead, he notes that she’s Catholic and “doesn’t have a clear record on abortion.” So apparently being a racist is AOK if you might also be anti-Roe v Wade. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/237 "2009-06-03T20:44:17Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The case is going before the SC. Back in her days as a prosecutor she was on the board of the Puerto Rican Legal Defense and Education Fund which fronted a similar case in Marino v. Ortiz which was struck down. The same group sued at the last minute over New York’s voting rules. So what? She was on an advocacy group? Are you saying that SC judges need to have been completely impartial on everything their whole life? > [@](#): > > There is absolutely no doubt that she is a Latino activist which severely limits her ability to act impartially. I am sure you can find a histroy of decisions then to back that claim up and not some BS from before her days as a judge. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/238 "2009-06-03T21:29:46Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > So what? She was on an advocacy group? Are you saying that SC judges need to have been completely impartial on everything their whole life? > > I am sure you can find a histroy of decisions then to back that claim up and not some BS from before her days as a judge. I’m sure she was part of the group that brought Marino v. Ortiz to trial. She was not part of an advocy group, she was part of a racially motivated advocacy group. There’s a difference. It’s one thing to represent the poor, it’s another thing to front for a specific ethnicity. This goes right along with her comments about how a Latino women versus white men on the Supreme Court. Judges are suppose to represent everybody. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/239 "2009-06-03T21:39:42Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > She was not part of an advocy group, she was part of a racially motivated advocacy group. There’s a difference. It’s one thing to represent the poor, it’s another thing to front for a specific ethnicity. No kidding! What’s up with that fucked up NAACP?!? Why can’t they be in favor of the Advancement of _Everyone_? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913/240 "2009-06-03T21:47:51Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Judges are suppose to represent everybody. What a relief! Turns out [she does](http://www.scotusblog.com/wp/judge-sotomayor-and-race-results-from-the-full-data-set/): > [@](#): > > In sum, in an eleven-year career on the Second Circuit, Judge Sotomayor has participated in roughly 100 panel decisions involving questions of race and has disagreed with her colleagues in those cases (a fair measure of whether she is an outlier) a total of 4 times. Only one case (Gant) in that entire eleven years actually involved the question whether race discrimination may have occurred. (In another case (Pappas) she dissented to favor a white bigot.) She participated in two other panels rejecting district court rulings agreeing with race-based jury-selection claims. Given that record, it seems absurd to say that Judge Sotomayor allows race to infect her decisionmaking. Even, as it turns out, [white bigots](http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/06/01/sotomayor/index.html): > [@](#): > > As someone who has a lot of respect for those who defend the First Amendment rights of people expressing despised views – that, after all, is where First Amendment rights are typically abridged – this dissent of hers substantially elevates my view of her as a judge. It’s not easy to be the only one of four federal judges in New York to rule in favor of a white racist NYPD employee on First Amendment grounds. More important, standing alone, Sotomayor’s dissent ought to put an end to the obnoxious and inflammatory claim that she has a “race-based” approach to the law whereby she ignores legal principles in order to rule against white males and in favor of racial minorities. Anyone continuing to make that claim should be confronted with Goldstein’s statistics and her dissent in the Pappas case. How can anyone maintain that – and how can media figures continue to treat it as a serious claim – in light of her principled and courageous defense of a white racist’s First Amendment rights? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-it-look-or-be-good-for-obama-to-withdraw-sotomayors-nomination/497913.md?page=13)