If virtue is it’s own reward, then why did Jesus find it necessary to remind his audience of the terrible wages of sin? Do you believe people would pursue righteous lives if they were only told of the glory of eternity with God, without the threat of damnation hanging over their head?
How is this not coercion?
So basically Jesus is Buddhist. Just not an atheistic Buddhist. Fair enough.
The choice is life with God or ‘live’ without Him. It’s our choice. Without Him sin will have horrible consequences, He is just telling us the truth of the situation. How is God suppose to help someone who does not want His help. Because we are His children, He does ease us into the discomfort of being without Him, but He does allow us to experience what it would be like.
It is not punishment, but a result of if you really want to be without God (or be your own god).
The common scare tactic, believe or go to hell, does not seem like God’s way, and is not the way I came to Him, nor do I concern myself with saving people from Hell, I don’t want that burden, that is God’s job. Mine is just to allow Jesus to express His Love through me, to make known Jesus’ Love.
As for the threat, it’s not a threat, it’s real and happening to people you see - yes people are in Hell, though the fire and demons are hidden from them, they are slowly burning away, perhaps through several lives, each one getting harder. The process is already started, and Jesus wants to take them out of that.
I’d go 60’s communeist.
Jesus…would be a fan of the Chicago Cubs.
Obviously.
He suffered for our sins, & any Cubs fan suffers a lot.
NEXT YEAR! THE PENNANT!
Agreed
No, money taken by taxing is not money taken at gunpoint. The question is what taxation is fair. We want schools roads, a fire and police department so most people understand taxes for things they see as necessary. At some point people rightfully question whether certain taxation is fair and or necessary and how exactly is it being spent.
Jesus also said “render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser’s” when asked about taxes, telling people that even if taxes are unfair make non material things your priority. The OPs question is whether Jesus would support a bill designed to help those less fortunate. It seems fairly clear to me from his teachings that he would, telling those with objections to give joyfully to help others and not give in to anger and resentment over the details.
Hold on, stop right there. There is the coercion, right there. We have no one’s word but Jesus’ that eternity without god is a horrible consequence. For all we know, it is just boring, or incredibly titillating, or any one of a hundred synonyms for pleasures not associated with godliness.
Why should we believe being separated from god is a bad thing?
oh boy, that’s a good one.
When they withhold my taxes from my paycheck I have them wave a gun at me for old times’ sake. They seem strangely reluctant, but I insist.
I just have them include a picture of a gun with a note that says
“We have one of these!”
The only thing sophomoric here is your understanding of my theory of government. I’ve consistently stated that I oppose the unjustified use of force, not simply all use of force. I think that taxes are OK if the money will be used to pay for what I believe is a legitimate government function, which is anything that (1) has a more-or-less equal benefit for all citizens and (2) it would be extremely difficult to do if the government didn’t do it. So, legitimate government funtions include at least the military, police, courts, and roads.
I will cop to not expressing this idea as completely as possible in the post you quoted, but I’ve said it so often that I thought it was a known quantity by now. And you don’t understand it anyway, so you would keep attacking a straw man no matter what I posted.
[QUOTE]
and with him all sin is forgiven, even the sins we commit after accepting Jesus so party on.
For instance, we all have very similar bodies, and thus gain more-or-less equal benefit from health coverage, and we’ve proven that we can’t do it well through private industry, given that we pay twice as much for worse results compared to the places that do it through the government. So health coverage is a legitimate government function, and you support taxes for it, right?
I’ll try.
You and I apparently disagree over whether Jesus would authorize taxation to accomplish a particular goal. I’m curious as to whether we also disagree over whether he’d authorize private individuals who’d like to engage in armed robbery to accomplish a particular goal.
Your answer to the latter question may well help me gain a better understanding of why we disagree about the former one. (Remember, I honestly don’t know what you think Jesus would say about private individuals deciding on their own initiative to engage in armed robbery; it may be irrelevant, or it may be entirely relevant.)
I think he’d be against that. I also think he’d be against people forcibly robbing those citizens. I likewise think he’d (a) be against people not turning the other cheek when struck, sure as I think he’d (b) also be against striking people in the first place. I think he’s the guy who tells the woman to go and sin no more right after making clear that he’s against folks who’d like to cast the first stone against her. I think he’s a guy who tells people to forgive others their trespasses, not someone who tells people to go trespassing.
Some people God has raised above government authority and when they pay taxes the Father reaches into the government coffers and return those funds. That’s what pay to Ceaser what is Ceaser’s means, also what it means to submit to the authority that God has placed over you. If they are over you, then pay, if not then you don’t. God can supply those needs far better then government can.
As pointed out, money is not needed, just caring and Love. It is always the Love of God that heals the sick, not medical treatment nor technology, though the method of healing can use the above.
As such a bill would not make any difference and it would not be a issue. All He has to do is send out His people into the world with the gift of healing, and get rid of the illusion that money or technology of man makes any difference.
Are you a Pentecoastal?
We won’t spend eternity without Him, we will eventually want to come home, it’s just how long we what to try to make it on our own.
Well you are now, how is it going, are you without pain, sickness, are you living in a beautiful world full of Love? Do you know everyone you meet intimately?
Perhaps your life is not so bad, but how long will that last, eventually things will get worse, and that is not correctable by you.
You become God’s child, so He does teach you His ways. But yes the restrictions are off and everything is permissible if done in Love - and you can do a lot in Love. It is also you learn to hear God, so He corrects you if you did something wrong, which may be just letting you know that He wanted you to do something that you didn’t.
I do attend different services and faiths as lead by the Holy Spirit, but don’t generally associate with the religious name such as pentecostal . Yes I have attended Pentecostal services, but also Lutheran, Reformed, RC, and for that matter Native American, Wiccian, Pagan ect… Again there are no restrictions when you are under grace and you go where He sends you.
I consider myself a servant of Lord Jesus Christ.
A clarified question: Do you believe in faith healing?