# Would John Lennon have forgiven Chapman? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 21, 2015, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069 "2015-06-21T07:24:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2015, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/21 "2015-06-21T20:46:57Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > Excellent comment!!! > > Yeah, Lennon could be an asshole. So could Bing Crosby and Richard Wagner. I don’t hold it against any of them; I’m glad they were here at all, so they could lay their gifts on us. > > Matter of fact, wouldn’t it be great if John could come back to life for just one day, so we could throw a big party for him? The highlight would be to watch him punch Chapman in the face, repeatedly. Wagner was more than a mere asshole. He was a vicious anti-Semite, and, even worse, he was the guy who wrote that abysmal music. ---
**Author:** ![Wallydraigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c0e974/32.png) [@Wallydraigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallydraigle)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/22 "2015-06-22T00:40:48Z")
The high ideals that liberals claim to espouse are generally meant mainly for others. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/23 "2015-06-22T00:48:57Z")
> [@Subterraneanus](#): > > Wagner was more than a mere asshole. He was a vicious anti-Semite, and, even worse, he was the guy who wrote that abysmal music. He also stole his best friends’ wimmins. If you think he was more than a garden-variety anti-semite, I suggest you crack a history book. If you think his music is “abysmal,” I can’t help you, Tin-Ear. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/24 "2015-06-22T00:56:14Z")
I’ve learned to accept that my favorite actors and musicians are often not the nicest people. It doesn’t take away from my enjoyment of their work. Lennon-McCartney wrote and performed many beautiful songs. Songs that defined my very early childhood memories. thats really all that matters to me. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/25 "2015-06-22T01:35:04Z")
If you shoot me and I die, I forgive you. If you shoot me and I live…_we will see…_ (Ancient Liverpudlian Proverb) ---
**Author:** ![sparky\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@sparky\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sparky_1)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/26 "2015-06-22T01:53:10Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#): > > Unless you knew him. > Hypocrisy is worth pointing out. He probably said that too Not really. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/27 "2015-06-22T02:27:30Z")
Wallydraigle writes: \> The high ideals that liberals claim to espouse are generally meant mainly for \> others. The high ideals that all human beings espouse are often meant mainly for others. It doesn’t detract (for me) from how good Lennon’s songs are that he wasn’t that great a person. This sort of thing has simply quit bothering me. There have been a number of SDMB threads about various famous people whose art was great but who were themselves not so great in their actions. The person who starts the thread finds it necessary to tell us that they can no longer stand the art of this person. When I point out other artists whose actions were equally bad, they blow up at me, telling me that they don’t care about any other artists, no matter how bad they were. They tell me that by refusing to boycott the art of the particular artist they are talking about in that thread I must be just as bad as the artist. My view is that I can give someone a Nobel or an Oscar or whatever one day and send them to prison for the rest of their life the next day and feel no contradiction in doing it. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/28 "2015-06-22T03:33:00Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > Not really. Oh come on. His whole life came to represent that principle. He went on and on about genuineness for his whole public life. Those book length interviews; Just the movie Hard Days Night was seen as a big blow against the stodgy England, and the victory of those cheeky working class lads. And it did nothing but grow as time went on, and he was the sun king. And that Screaming album! Yelling the truth at everyone. Then, Imagine no posessions. “Jump when your mama tell you anything” The guy who calls his wife Mother and mummy calls out McCartney that way! A very unaware man. John Lennon is a huge public figure, and the idol of millions including me. Therefore his hypocrisies matter to me too. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/29 "2015-06-22T04:12:38Z")
Could you give us some specific quotations that show that he went on and on about genuineness (or any other principle he made a big deal of)? I’d be interested in quotations from interviews, from songs, from movies, and from anything else that Lennon said. Then could you give specific instances where he violated those principles? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/30 "2015-06-22T04:13:32Z")
> [@sparky\_1](#): > > Not really. Tell that to Julian Lennon. Or if she were still alive, his first wife, Cynthia. I doubt they’d agree. That doesn’t mean Lennon wasn’t a great artist. I’m a huge Beatles fan, and I love his work. But the guy was a rat bastard. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/31 "2015-06-22T04:29:06Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Could you give us some specific quotations that show that he went on and on about genuineness (or any other principle he made a big deal of)? I’d be interested in quotations from interviews, from songs, from movies, and from anything else that Lennon said. Then could you give specific instances where he violated those principles? He not only was a symbol of genuineness of his own making, but he would accuse someone of something when he was the one doing it. I just posted on this. There are two book length interviews. What do you want from me? You must not be very aware of Lennons career arc or his public statements. Christ take a listen to National Lampoon Radio Dinner “Magical Misery Tour” It’s all directly quoted from the Rolling Stone interview. (Performed by Tony Hendra) ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/32 "2015-06-22T04:39:20Z")
[![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVDpPX37fkU) ---
**Author:** ![Subterraneanus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Subterraneanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Subterraneanus)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/33 "2015-06-22T20:21:05Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > He also stole his best friends’ wimmins. > > If you think he was more than a garden-variety anti-semite, I suggest you crack a history book. If you think his music is “abysmal,” I can’t help you, Tin-Ear. Uh oh, someone on the internet isn’t happy. ---
**Author:** ![SaharaTea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@SaharaTea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SaharaTea)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2015, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/34 "2015-06-22T21:51:17Z")
> [@Sir\_Prize](#): > > Promoting peace over war is a bit different then promoting forgiveness for murderers. Ding ding ding! We have a winner. I’ve never heard McCartney or Ono wish for Chapman’s suffering and death. Even if Lennon was able to forgive Chapman (which he’s not), I think he’d still want Chapman to face the legal consequences of his actions. ---
**Author:** ![Becky2844](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Becky2844](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Becky2844)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/35 "2015-06-23T03:24:49Z")
If Chapman had missed Lennon would have throttled his ass. He wasn’t a Teddy Boy for nuthin’. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/36 "2015-06-25T01:16:53Z")
> [@Rigamarole](#): > > I think he’d want us to imagine that there’s no heaven, and no hell below us - above us only sky. You’re a dreamer. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/37 "2015-06-25T01:54:36Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > You’re a dreamer. He’s not the only one. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069/38 "2015-06-25T05:38:42Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#): > > Where does Paul McCartney talk this talk about forgiveness exactly? Live and Let Die? 😃 He’s not in favour. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-john-lennon-have-forgiven-chapman/723069.md?page=1)