# Would joining the military make the average person better? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 29, 2015, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-joining-the-military-make-the-average-person-better/726450 "2015-07-29T04:57:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-joining-the-military-make-the-average-person-better/726450/21 "2015-07-30T16:27:12Z")
\*If it is within you to improve yourself, and you are willing to let that happen, \*it will help. If not, there is little it can do. During my own training I saw enough bums do enough to pass with respectable evals and keep right up on this side of the line of good behavior, just so as to not call undue attention to themselves – but once Sarge was no longer in their faces their character and work ethic reverted to bumhood. It has been mentioned by some that under a regimen of “universal service” they perceive even less effect, which would not be surprising as a majority of those going through would be there just because they have to and want to get over with it ASAP, and the cadre just want to get them trained enough to save their lives. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-joining-the-military-make-the-average-person-better/726450/22 "2015-07-30T16:46:38Z")
> [@Sangahyando](#): > > IMercifully, I never had to do UK National Service, at which I’d have been a disaster: was born some half-dozen years too late. I’d missed Prince Harry’s recent dictum – but hearing of it now, reinforces the impression I already had, that he’s a twit. I think he just really enjoyed being in the military and hasn’t twigged that it worked for him because he wanted to be there rather than because the military can magically turn slackers into fine upstanding lads. ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-joining-the-military-make-the-average-person-better/726450/23 "2015-07-30T17:28:06Z")
I have basically little interest in our Royals, for good or ill; but consider it accurate to say that in the main, geniuses they ain’t. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-joining-the-military-make-the-average-person-better/726450/24 "2015-07-30T18:46:58Z")
If nothing else, you’ll probably come out in a lot better physical shape. Honestly, I think most things one would sign up for between the age of 18-24 (military, college, job, Peace Corp, whatever) will tend to make you “better” than if you did nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-joining-the-military-make-the-average-person-better/726450/25 "2015-07-30T19:25:04Z")
Based on the Norwegians, Koreans, and Israelis that I have met, it doesn’t have all that big an effect on the majority of the populace. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-joining-the-military-make-the-average-person-better/726450/26 "2015-07-30T19:30:23Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > The Citadel, VMI, Texas A&M, and Norwich? AFAIK, VMI still requires all students to join ROTC. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-joining-the-military-make-the-average-person-better/726450/27 "2015-07-30T20:09:21Z")
It can be a positive or negative experience, it really depends what group of people you are working with in the military. I joined when I was 23 and did 4 and a half years and I think it did a lot for me. I was a big slacker that was teetering on being homeless and suddenly I had all this responsibility, had to be at work on time, and had other people depending on me. Its pretty good about teaching you how to be flexible and learning how to work with all sorts of different personality types. Physically it also showed me that I was capable of a lot more than I ever thought possible in the sense of endurance and stamina. I learned that a lot of things like running 6-8 miles is in a lot of ways more a mental thing than a physical one and that the mind can push your body a lot further than you may think, I was overweight in my youth and a slow runner so when I was put in a situation where I couldn’t just quit I found that I actually could hack it with the proper incentive. Unfortunately if you are lower enlisted and you end up getting some bitter NCO that hates your guts they can literally make your life a living hell. I saw some sergeants that just locked on to a specific private or specialist and made them their little toy that they fucked with constantly. If you get in trouble your sergeant will write you a counseling statement. I promise you they can find at least one little thing wrong with you almost every day. Hair out of regulations, didn’t shave close enough today, uniform dirty, five minutes late today, forgot to go to parade rest and then pretty soon a stack of paper work makes you look like the biggest POS soldier that ever lived even though everyone makes these same mistakes occasionally but if you are higher ranking or well liked by the first sergeant or commander these will be overlooked. For instance when I got moved to a different company I was a specialist and late twice in two months and got a company grade article 15, But an E5 in our same company was late to PT literally 3 days in a week and one of those days he didn’t even show up and it wasn’t just that week it was multiple occurrences and he didn’t get punished at all because he was a PT stud so the First Sergeant loved him. I really enjoyed the military overall and it was probably the smartest thing I ever did because it gave me drive and motivation to better myself and it opened a lot of doors for me financially: Allowed me to buy a house, paid off my student loans, and I got the GI Bill which I’m currently using to go back to school so I can get a better job and provide better for my family. I did see some people that got into shitty situations and it was like a snowball turning into an avalanche and once you fuck up it takes a long time to redeem yourself if it happens at all. But I think those cases are rare anomalies and I think most people probably come out better than they went in to the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-joining-the-military-make-the-average-person-better/726450/28 "2015-07-30T20:26:03Z")
“War is for the participants a test of character: it makes bad men worse and good men better.” - Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain > **[Joshua Chamberlain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Lawrence_Chamberlain)** > > Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain (born Lawrence Joshua Chamberlain, September 8, 1828 – February 24, 1914) was an American college professor from Maine who volunteered during the American Civil War to join the Union Army. He became a highly respected and decorated Union officer, reaching the rank of brigadier general (and brevet major general). He is best known for his gallantry at the Battle of Gettysburg, for which he was awarded the Medal of Honor. > Chamberlain was commissioned a lieutenant colonel... ---
**Author:** ![Sangahyando](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f14d63/32.png) [@Sangahyando](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sangahyando)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-joining-the-military-make-the-average-person-better/726450/29 "2015-07-31T07:55:24Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Based on the Norwegians, Koreans, and Israelis that I have met, it doesn’t have all that big an effect on the majority of the populace. Further to my musings about the UK’s brief “freak” spell of peacetime conscription, and its downsides – we Brits tend to be lazy, contrary so-and-so’s: perhaps the people of many other nations incline to being more stoical / compliant. Plus, there’s always been a sense here, that routine conscription in peacetime is un-British: a kind of perversion which “lesser breeds” go in for… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-joining-the-military-make-the-average-person-better/726450.md?page=1)