# Would modern forensics have solved the Ripper murders? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 26, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874 "2010-03-26T14:29:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/1 "2010-03-26T14:29:17Z")
A.K.A. the Whitechapel killings. If investigators at the time could have had our experience with police procedure for serial killings and advanced forensic science, would it have led to the killer? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/2 "2010-03-26T14:32:34Z")
Well, I imagine it’s impossible to know what evidence they _didn’t_ have - in other words, what did they lose? Surely tons of stuff. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/3 "2010-03-26T16:03:59Z")
I think it’s pretty doubtful. Traces left by the killer at the scene aren’t much use until you have a suspect to test them against. Likewise, traces of the victim or scene on him or his clothes. Psychological profiling might have helped focus the investigation, but not very much – any plausible profile would match hundreds of men in and around Whitechapel. I saw a documentary where a geographical profiler identified the areas the killer was most likely based, but the police at the time seem to have worked that out for themselves, since they did house-to-house enquiries and searches in those places. Stranger killings are still the hardest murders to solve, and I suspect modern police, with a similar lack of witnesses or motive, might not be able to do much more than the police at the time did – get as many coppers in the area as they could, and hope to catch him. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/4 "2010-03-26T16:12:49Z")
They might have done a much better job of identifying which victims were really Ripper kills, though. There’s still debate on that. (Because evidently a crapton of Whitechapel prostitutes routinely got killed so messily that it’s plausible Jack did 'em, believe it or not.) ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/5 "2010-03-26T16:39:05Z")
The woman who writes the Kay Scarpetta novels wrote a book claiming she solved the murders using modern forensics. Jack the Ripper scholars think she is nuts. I can’t remember her name. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/6 "2010-03-26T16:53:47Z")
> [@Icerigger](#): > > The woman who writes the Kay Scarpetta novels wrote a book claiming she solved the murders using modern forensics. Jack the Ripper scholars think she is nuts. I can’t remember her name. Patricia Cornwell. I read her book. She not only failed to make a convincing case, she pretty much failed to make ANY case. ---
**Author:** ![Rodd\_Hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@Rodd\_Hill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodd_Hill)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/7 "2010-03-26T17:00:14Z")
I strongly recommend a long-running podcast called “Rippercast,” hosted by Howard Brown and Jonathan Menges (it’s free on iTunes). This is a very fact-based examination of not only the murders, but very in-depth social analysis of the era and locality. They pretty much poo-poo Cornwell’s book (along with most of the ‘usual suspects’). They have done some remarkable fact-finding about the police officers involved, witnesses, etc. Really worth a listen. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/8 "2010-03-26T17:14:31Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > evidently a crapton of Whitechapel prostitutes routinely got killed Is that the collective noun for Whitechapel prostitutes? And here is me thinking it was [Japan’s favorite electric guitarist](http://www.engrish.com//wp-content/uploads/2008/08/cdcover.jpg). ☹ ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/9 "2010-03-26T17:31:41Z")
> [@Rodd\_Hill](#): > > They pretty much poo-poo Cornwell’s book “Poo-poo” is actually a pretty good description of Cornwell’s book. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/10 "2010-03-26T17:34:28Z")
Modern DNA & blood testing would probably have been very convincing evidence against a suspect, had the police ever caught one. Modern handwriting experts would have been able to separate the fake letters to the police from the real ones. (That seems to have been done pretty well already.) ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/11 "2010-03-26T17:48:00Z")
I don’t know if it would have definitely solved it, but it definitely would have increased the odds. Computer databases like HITS, ViCAP and others would have helped keep suspects, investigations, and possible linked crimes straight without having to sort through thousands of files and documents, DNA could have told if the liver with the “From Hell” letter actually came from victim Catherine Eddowes, DNA of the killer could possibly have been taken from underneath the victims’ fingernails, microscopic particle and fiber analysis could have told something about the killers occupation, clothing, hair, living conditions, etc., and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/12 "2010-03-26T17:57:25Z")
Of course, if we had modern forensics then the killer would be living in a society with modern forensics and would have operated with a care to them. Unless we’re assuming that the modern forensics appeared out of the TARDIS and had no organic place in society. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/13 "2010-03-26T18:13:14Z")
You guys keep saying “if they had a suspect” and I had thought plenty of people were questioned as to whether or not they were Jack, just had to let them go on a lack of evidence. Am I mistaken in that literally no one was even questioned or interrogated as possibly being The Ripper? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/14 "2010-03-26T18:29:14Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > You guys keep saying “if they had a suspect” and I had thought plenty of people were questioned as to whether or not they were Jack, just had to let them go on a lack of evidence. Am I mistaken in that literally no one was even questioned or interrogated as possibly being The Ripper? Apparently many people were investigated, according to wikipedia: “The surviving police files on the Whitechapel murders allow a detailed view of investigative procedure in the Victorian era.[62] A large team of policemen conducted house-to-house inquiries throughout Whitechapel. Forensic material was collected and examined. Suspects were identified, traced and either examined more closely or eliminated from the inquiry. Police work follows the same pattern today.[62] Over 2000 people were interviewed, “upwards of 300” people were investigated, and 80 people were detained.[63]” > **[Jack the Ripper | Investigation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_the_Ripper#Investigation)** > > The vast majority of the City of London Police files relating to their investigation into the Whitechapel murders were destroyed in the Blitz. The surviving Metropolitan Police files allow a detailed view of investigative procedures in the Victorian era. A large team of policemen conducted house-to-house inquiries throughout Whitechapel. Forensic material was collected and examined. Suspects were identified, traced, and either examined more closely or eliminated from the inquiry. Modern The inves... ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/15 "2010-03-26T18:57:24Z")
Here’s a list of [suspects](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_the_Ripper_suspects) The police in England started collecting fingerprints in 1900, but they didn’t use them till 1905 when the first person was tried and convicted on fingerprint evidence. By then the police in London had over 80,000 fingerprints on file. Only five of the victims are regarded as the same man. The rest may or may not be, depending on whom you want to listen to. The fact the murder stopped on his own is somewhat unusual, but not unheard of. The [Cleveland Torso Murders](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Torso_murders) also stopped on their own. And that was a similar case of murder of random people. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/16 "2010-03-26T19:00:00Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Of course, if we had modern forensics then the killer would be living in a society with modern forensics and would have operated with a care to them. Unless we’re assuming that the modern forensics appeared out of the TARDIS and had no organic place in society. Maybe, but maybe not. Sometimes the fact that a criminal tries to clean up a scene actually tells the police more about the suspect than someone who leaves everything a mess. For example, it says a lot about the perp’s psychology, training and background. It helps to establish time lines. Many forensic clues are things that are virtually impossible to avoid leaving behind - hairs, fibers and scraped skin are tough to prevent entirely. Some cautious behaviors would conflict with the killer’s motive for committing the crime. For example, a rapist may not want to wear a condom - if he had that much self-control, he probably wouldn’t be raping people in the first place. So even a fully educated criminal might knowingly leave clues because if he doesn’t do the things that cause the clues, his motive for the crime is eliminated. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/17 "2010-03-26T20:32:06Z")
Even if the killer were identified, lets say using DNA, it would be quite another thing to then use it in the courts of the day to prove murder. ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/18 "2010-03-27T04:28:41Z")
Even if modern forensics could have positively identified the Ripper, good luck getting him back from the Vorlons. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/19 "2010-03-27T17:50:04Z")
> [@Rodd\_Hill](#): > > I strongly recommend a long-running podcast called “Rippercast,” hosted by Howard Brown and Jonathan Menges (it’s free on iTunes). This is a very fact-based examination of not only the murders, but very in-depth social analysis of the era and locality. > > They pretty much poo-poo Cornwell’s book (along with most of the ‘usual suspects’). They have done some remarkable fact-finding about the police officers involved, witnesses, etc. Really worth a listen. I like [Casebook.org](http://www.casebook.org/intro.html) myself, Ill check on the podcasts now =) ---
**Author:** ![Rodd\_Hill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/3ab097/32.png) [@Rodd\_Hill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodd_Hill)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874/20 "2010-03-27T18:24:28Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > I like [Casebook.org](http://www.casebook.org/intro.html) myself, Ill check on the podcasts now =) Well there you are, then–“Rippercast” is actually an offshoot of “Casebook,” with links to each of the episodes on the [Casebook.org](http://Casebook.org) webpage. They go very in-depth into the lives of the “canonical five,” the Thames Torso murders, poring over archives for old photos of the Whitecapel area, etc. They are generally not “suspect-based,” but they do episodes on tracking the lives and whereabouts of Tumbelty, Kosminski, Druitt, etc. Some fascinating research through police files on the investigators, right from the beat PCs up to Macnaghten. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-modern-forensics-have-solved-the-ripper-murders/533874.md?page=2)