# Would outlawing abortion make more babies available for adoption? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 22, 2012, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517 "2012-10-22T13:32:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![humblebumble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5e925/32.png) [@humblebumble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/humblebumble)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/21 "2012-10-22T23:06:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Having more babies available for adoption does not necessarily mean that there will _be_ more adoptions, y’all realize. It means that more babies will need to be adopted in order to have a chance at life, which is why the outlaw abortion argument fails. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/22 "2012-10-22T23:18:51Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Have you considered the fact that a certain proportion are pretty much not what anyone is looking for, and an increase of babies given up for adoption will increase those numbers? A close friend of mine who’s been in the social work field for the past couple of decades says that there’s no shortage of prospective parents for children under 2, regardless of race or ethnicity, or whether they’re special needs kids or not. Not her opinion but mine: it’s hard to see that remaining true if there’s a glut of healthy white babies up for adoption. Not to say that there won’t be anyone choosing to adopt special needs kids when they could adopt a healthy kid of their own race, but some prospective parents are undoubtedly nudged towards considering adopting special needs kids due to the wait and difficulty of adopting healthy kids. And of course there’d be a lot more special needs kids in need of adoption, just like there’d be a lot more healthy kids. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/23 "2012-10-22T23:21:18Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Yes, you are correct. [http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/world/12abortion.html?\_r=0](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/12/world/12abortion.html?_r=0) The article didn’t mention if any of the countries they surveyed were First World countries that had gone from abortion being legal and more or less widely available, to being illegal. That would be our peer group in such a study if abortion were to be outlawed here. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/24 "2012-10-22T23:31:42Z")
I think we would see a higher adoption rate, sure. But I think we’d also see more children “in the system” because they would be perceived to be defective. If you don’t want the child you’re carrying, are you going to do prenatal checks? Stop drinking and smoking and shooting? Hell, maybe simply being forced to be pregnant will drive you to do bad things. We’ve also got to remember that many people who have abortions do so because they aren’t supposed to get pregnant. Why? Because they are taking prescription drugs that have severe teratogenic effects. You didn’t find out that you were pregnant until you were three months in? And you are taking an antiepileptic or you’re on lithium? You’re receiving high doses of chemotherapy for cancer? Oops, sucks to be you–I mean, your kid. Mothers who find themselves in this horrible predicament have a choice now. A tough choice, but it’s there. Without abortion, they will have to live with the sadness of knowing they unintentionally harmed their children. Those children become wards of the state if the parents just want to forget. We all know that everybody and their mama is on a prescription drug (tongue planted in cheek, but only a little bit). So this isn’t just me being a silly Debbie Downer. If I learned that I was pregnant, it would be irresponsible for me (IMHO) not to consider an abortion. Not just because I don’t think I would be a suitable mother, but because every night I take a substance suspected to cause teratogenic effects. A substance I couldn’t even stop taking right away because I could die if I went cold turkey. I know life is about making choices (and I shouldn’t have all that sex, bad **monstro**!), but should someone else be punished for something I didn’t even know I was doing? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2012, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/25 "2012-10-22T23:32:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > At any rate, just like I don’t like it when my side, pro-choice, makes up bogus arguments in favor of legalized abortion, I’m not buying the idea that all these kids will be adopted out. If you’re pro-life because you think abortion is murder, that’s the end of the argument. Adoption rates don’t matter because we don’t put down kids in foster homes like unclaimed puppies if they are not adopted out. I’m not sure I’m following you. To those of us who care about quality of life, adoption rates matter because a childhood spent in and out of foster homes or in orphanages (which would surely make a comeback if there were a glut of unwanted children) is not as good for the child as a childhood spent in a stable family. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/26 "2012-10-23T01:43:57Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > A close friend of mine who’s been in the social work field for the past couple of decades says that there’s no shortage of prospective parents for children under 2, regardless of race or ethnicity, or whether they’re special needs kids or not. > > Not her opinion but mine: it’s hard to see that remaining true if there’s a glut of healthy white babies up for adoption. Not to say that there won’t be anyone choosing to adopt special needs kids when they could adopt a healthy kid of their own race, but some prospective parents are undoubtedly nudged towards considering adopting special needs kids due to the wait and difficulty of adopting healthy kids. And of course there’d be a lot more special needs kids in need of adoption, just like there’d be a lot more healthy kids. Even current state, it depends on where you are and which parents you are working with. There are a lot of picky hopeful adoptive parents out there. I know people who dropped out of programs because they couldn’t choose race or gender. I know people who were dropped from programs because they turned down birthmothers or babies. A lot of people choose international adoption because it has advantages over domestic adoption legally - no risk of the birthfather stepping in. Few reclaimation issues. Unless we change birth parent rights in the U.S. (which, as an adoptive parent, I don’t think we should), those issues will remain for adoptive parents. IF you outlawed abortion. 1. Some abortion would still happen. It did before, it will again. In particular, I expect that for middle and upper class women (those Stanford undergrads who everyone is looking for in a birth mother), out of country abortions will be what happens - how hard is it for someone in the U.S. to get to Canada or the Bahamas for a weekend? Poor women will still need back alley, unsafe abortions. 2. Some women will choose to parent. Abortions usually happen in the first tri, and many women who choose not to abort and make abortion plans change their mind and decide to parent. You get attached in nine months of carrying a fetus. 3. Some additional babies will be available for adoption. What proportions these will happen at is anyone’s guess. If #3 is significant, I think it will be a bad thing, not a good thing. I think that the shortage of babies for adoption creates opportunities for older children and less desired children to find homes. Changing that puts more stress on a stressed foster care system. If #2 is significant, we are likely to see more children raised in poverty and further strain on our social safety net. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/27 "2012-10-23T03:45:05Z")
> [@Cheshire\_Human](#): > > Of course it would make more available. That’s trivially obvious, because it would be the only legal way to get rid of a baby you didn’t want. That alone, however, isn’t a good argument for outlawing abortion. It’s just an inevitable side effect of doing so, and solves few of the problems the people presently getting abortions are doing it for. Another inevitable side effect is more deaths and other complications from the inevitable increase in dangerous illegal abortions. [http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2510/before-em-roe-em-v-em-wade-em-did-10-000-women-a-year-die-from-illegal-abortions](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2510/before-em-roe-em-v-em-wade-em-did-10-000-women-a-year-die-from-illegal-abortions) The argument that illegal abortion would kill more women than current abortions doesn’t seem to be supported by the evidence. > [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > I’ll advise some caution, because the areas of the world with restrictive abortion laws tend to be poorest. Eyeballing [this list](http://www.womenonwaves.org/en/page/460/abortion-laws-worldwide), the only developed nations I see with restrictive abortion laws — defined as abortion being illegal or only legal to protect the woman’s health — are Ireland and Poland. I’d be generous and include Chile as well whose GDP per capita isn’t too far away from Poland’s. ---
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/28 "2012-10-23T13:18:45Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > The argument that illegal abortion would kill more women than current abortions doesn’t seem to be supported by the evidence. It doesn’t have to be _a lot_ more to be _more._ People doing things illegally tend to care less about safety than people doing things that are legal and regulated. News stories of people croaking from using bad batches of meth or crack demonstrates that. It’s a near _certainty_ that some women will die from illegal abortions who would have survived a legal one. Even your cite admits that there were _some._ Additionally, some will wind up sterile, or with injuries that don’t become apparent until much later. It’s nearly impossible to find out how many of those there are, but they’re bound to happen. I have no idea how many there would be, though, so I made no claim about numbers. Even one, however, is an undesirable outcome. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2012, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/29 "2012-10-23T13:48:32Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’m not sure I’m following you. To those of us who care about quality of life, adoption rates matter because a childhood spent in and out of foster homes or in orphanages (which would surely make a comeback if there were a glut of unwanted children) is not as good for the child as a childhood spent in a stable family. My point is that if you’re pro-life because you think abortion is murder, it doesn’t matter if the kids will be adopted or not. We don’t currently murder kids who can’t be adopted and no one (well, almost no one) is proposing that we do. So the whole adoption thing is irrelevant to the pro-life position. I would also venture that it shouldn’t ease the conscious of pro-choices, either. If you’re pro-choice because you don’t think abortion is murder, then it really doesn’t matter. However, if you think abortion is murder and you’re still pro-choice, then you’ve got some problems between your conscience and yourself. ---
**Author:** ![radar69](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@radar69](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/radar69)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/30 "2013-04-06T18:13:02Z")
Of course there are studies out there of what will happen to adoptions, if abortions are illegal, again. Right now there are 150,000 adoptions in the U.S. per year. Estimates say that after new abortion laws are passed that number will go up to 175,000. The problem is after considering data of abortions now, and all other factors, there will still be some where between an extra 400,000 to 600,000 babies each year that won’t find homes. Where are they to go? Orphanages? I saw the horrible conditions and living conditions in my younger days. My Dad had my brother and I go to the Boys Club on Saturdays just to see what these poor kids were like. Talk about lack of social skills, bad manners, …etc. It made me appreciate what I had. Dad would take me on various occasions to the orphanages where I saw overcrowding, terrible eating conditions, far too few clothing donations, not enough bathroom facilities…etc. Now just multiply and see what kind of numbers we would be seeing after 10 years. Who would pay for this? I have questions about abortion, but we need to look at this side of things too. I only hope that every person that is for making abortion illegal, no matter what age, will adopt at least 5 children in the first 10 years, and raise them right. In my firsts 15 years of life, I remember 3 girls that my family knew, died of complications from self-abortion. Please consider these kind of facts too, as you make decisions. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2013, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/31 "2013-04-07T07:07:16Z")
> [@Paranoid\_Randroid](#): > > Eyeballing [this list](http://www.womenonwaves.org/en/page/460/abortion-laws-worldwide), the only developed nations I see with restrictive abortion laws — defined as abortion being illegal or only legal to protect the woman’s health — are Ireland and Poland. And guess what - there are hardly any Irish babies available for adoption, and Irish parents who want to adopt are forced to look to other countries. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/32 "2013-04-08T13:36:36Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I would also venture that it shouldn’t ease the conscious of pro-choices, either. If you’re pro-choice because you don’t think abortion is murder, then it really doesn’t matter. However, if you think abortion is murder and you’re still pro-choice, then you’ve got some problems between your conscience and yourself. I’m pro-choice because I favor legal abortions. Should a person have the right to use a woman’s body without her permission? Pregnancy is a very complicated biological and psychological condition. The idea that anti-abortion people think a woman should be able to carry a child for nine months and hand it over to strangers really really irks the hell out of me. ---
**Author:** ![BigAppleBucky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigapplebucky/32/178_2.png) [@BigAppleBucky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigAppleBucky)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/33 "2013-04-08T15:50:30Z")
Just let the Catholic Church take care of all the throw-away children. The Church would then have in-house kids no one cared about to abuse. It all worked out so well in Ireland. I would also request that pro-choice people not be made to help pay for throw-away kid care. Only anti-abortionists would have to pay the added tax. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/34 "2013-04-08T19:28:26Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > As far as I understand, making abortion illegal doesn’t greatly impact the abortion **rate** , it just makes it less safe. (I’m willing to be corrected on this by someone who has the facts.) So there’s an unexamined assumption in the premise that outlawing abortion will lead to more pregnancies carried to term. > > –Cliffy Uh “making murder illegal doesn’t necessarily impact the murder rate, it just makes it less safe” Dude. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2013, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/35 "2013-04-08T20:56:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Having more babies available for adoption does not necessarily mean that there will _be_ more adoptions, y’all realize. As I understand it, before _Roe v. Wade_ there used to be a lot more **orphanages,** and a lot more need for them. An “orphan’s” (or an abandoned-foundling’s) chances of getting adopted were slim. Nowadays, any unwanted child who is not aborted will probably go on the adoption market and get snapped up right away. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/36 "2013-04-09T04:52:35Z")
In the US, healthy white infants do tend to get snapped up. However, unwanted children who are not healthy AND white AND infants tend to not be adopted. So we’ve got a lot of kids who have medical problems, or are non-white/mixed race, or older, or all three who are floating around in the system, mostly in foster care, without a chance of ever getting adopted. ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/37 "2013-04-09T05:18:16Z")
Historically, there have been LOTS of babies available - they just were not healthy, happy _ **White** _ babies. This is what the “stop abortions! I want a baby!” types typically have missed. OR - what **Lynn** said… ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/38 "2013-04-09T21:58:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > As I understand it, before _Roe v. Wade_ there used to be a lot more **orphanages,** and a lot more need for them. An “orphan’s” (or an abandoned-foundling’s) chances of getting adopted were slim. Nowadays, any unwanted child who is not aborted will probably go on the adoption market and get snapped up right away. Before single motherhood was allowed, many women were forced to give their children up for adoption. These stories are absolutely heart breaking. My OP states that, since single motherhood is now an option, would more babies be given up? ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/39 "2013-04-10T02:48:12Z")
I think outlawing abortion would probably make more babies available for adoption, but bombing office buildings would work faster. I don’t like either idea. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517/40 "2013-04-10T02:50:36Z")
> [@usedtobe](#): > > Historically, there have been LOTS of babies available - they just were not healthy, happy _ **White** _ babies. > > This is what the “stop abortions! I want a baby!” types typically have missed. > > OR - what **Lynn** said… It’s sort of like adopting a pet from the shelter, really. The young, healthy, playful puppies and kittens will get snapped up, especially if they look like purebreds. The older animals, the ones with trust issues, or with medical issues? They don’t get adopted so quickly. Anyone who is involved in animal rescue can tell you how hard it is to place a dog with heartworms, or a cat with FIV. A child (not an infant) who has been malnourished, or who has never been properly socialized, or who has any sort of medical problem is also very difficult to find a home for, and might never get placed but just age out of the system. There are some people who will make a point of fostering or adopting special needs kids, but some of these people are doing it from quite misguided motives. Outlawing abortions might make a FEW more babies available for adoption. However, it would also probably make it even harder for a lot more special needs kids to be placed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-outlawing-abortion-make-more-babies-available-for-adoption/638517.md?page=3)