Would people be so religious if they knew what religion caused?

(Moderators, I posted this same reply on another Great Debate:
“Why are people so defensive about God?” I think it is a VERY
relevant story here too. Is it legal to post it twice?
Yes, I’m atheist, but I don’t like to break rules, contrary to popular belief.)

I might as well let my own experience loose.

After Catholic elementary, I started Private Catholic school.
In sophomore year, I traveled to New York, stayed with aunt and uncle
and took a prep course on entering seminary.

Originally, I planned to become a priest, possibly move to Italy,
stay with other relatives up north, and live a life with
respect from everyone who saw me. (This is Italy, remember.)

During this course, the bible was examined and I was taught
what NOT to talk about, what answers to give people who questioned
the wrath and ire of God in the OT and those who did not believe in the NT. I learned of all the holes in this story. There was the erroneous lineage of Jesus in Luke and Matthew (previously mentioned),
Moses tying his son to a rock, Gabriel saving him, the rape,
the pestilence, the acts of calling people to destroy others…

Even the commandments. The ones I’d be using in Italy were NOT
alike to the ones I learned to recite every day in America.

I could keep going, but it’s clear that this bible was NOT a truthful source, it was instead, the prelude to modern politics and controlling
your population. You think I’m kidding? When the day came that
over 5,000 people (5,000 people!!!) came to view a piece of bread
that had a stain that looked like Jesus. The priests I was studying with
called an emergency “seminary awareness” meeting, telling us how
to use this crazy occurance to help prove to people this was true,
to keep their faith, and to get the money from this outrageous occurance into the collection plates.

There were suggestions of telling stories of the poor countries
that have no real tanglible items of value, that faith is strong
and that by just mentioning a second collection for these countries
next mass made people give more IMMEDIATELY!

Again, these are not evangelists like Haggard or Roberts, these are
priests.

Since now it was proven to me that the bible should be avoided
when preaching, I decided to create my “program of worship”
(an assignment) that I would only use what’s around us as proof
of an existing god. I would point out a 500 year old Redwood,
a blue whale, music, any phenomenon.

When you get to Europe, places that have much LESS distance between
their different societies, you find people have heard so many versions
of creation, god, morality, that your brand new way of teaching
has been done.

Currently, you have 84% Switzerland Atheist, NOT AGNOSTIC.
49% England, Atheist, Germany, 38% atheist.
When I traveled to these places, I can guarantee those numbers are correct.

All that said, it is only clear to me that those who call this book “holy”
and “true” have never read it all. They skip words they don’t understand, they find verses that suit themselves or their supposed cause, they start wars… Starting wars over religion. This is the last thiing I learned in seminary prep: Men, boys schools, teaching religion.
We should mention the Crusades and Inquisitioins, how their faith
drove these men to profess god’s goodness, but NEVER, EVER
mention the start of Christianity and Constantine. Never mention
the 400 years after Jesus’ death how no one had heard this story
and how a victorious war speech, painting crosses on shields led to
a life in Heaven.

I asked one priest, “Why?”
He said, “You don’t want a job?”

Faithful Cecilites, If you actually believe one flipping word of this bible,
go to seminary, leave your white-bred American town and travel.

Just make sure Colorado suburbs aren’t on your list.

Oh, please. :rolleyes: Being a Christian in modern America is the easiest, laziest position to take. For hard, try being something else.

Actually, the fact that demons don’t exist is a mighty protection indeed. Why, I can fight off billions of non-existent demons before breakfast without even trying. Literally.

Surely they could cut a guy who posts seven times a year a break. :slight_smile:

Big deal. I can fight off billions of existing ones without breaking a sweat.

Since they would have to actually exist, I doubt that.

I think I remember that - I certainly agreed that I needed to know more, if possible. I’m always happy to learn more about what people believe, but it’s a general interest; i’m no more or less interested in your particular God for example than I am in others. And I wouldn’t say I feel like I need a god (or God, for that matter).

If that’s your definition of enlistment, then fair enough.

Denial of the existence of God, I suspect you mean. Denying God would also be one of those things that requires you believe in him in the first place. Perhaps you mean both.

Can you? :wink:

What thread are you reading instead of this one??
This from someone who uses “demons” and “logic” in the same sentence.

I’ll second that insofar as to say that your clear voice on the issue is a breath of fresh air as an unobstructed, unapologetic expression of a viewpoint. Thanks!

I’ll third that, 9th.

I think that the competition among christians
is severe, and definitely immature, almost, “Look how good I am!”

The only other people in existence who demand their goodness
be recognized are the cute little fire-extinguisher sized
citizens of our planet.

I am sure what you post here is true, I have heard much the same in churches that are not Catholic. But that doesn’t prove God is not real, only that His “followers” know Him not. If you are serious in your pursuit of learning about God you will need to look beyond belief systems and doctrine and into your own heart. Some day humans may not need belief systems to define themselves, they will know who they are.

I am sure you are sincere in your beliefs,but I am glad that most people that are believers in God do not make him to be as weak and as I understand your beliefs of God to be.

Hammarabi’s code was for the way to civilize the people of his time, not considered sin. It was more of a guide to help people get along with each other in a civil way.

The fallen state of man didn’t seem to be the Psalmists reason to call them Gods. Jesus also seemed to back this up with His own claim to divinity.

Monavis

prleone thanks for your post, it does go into how the demonic has invaded the faith, worshiping of naturally formed images and picking and choosing what verses of the Bible should be avoided. This is what the enemy is doing, not God.

DT you are talking about someone who identifies themselves as a Christian but really does not know the Lord Jesus AND have dedicated their lives to Him, Sadly I think that is the great majority of the people who claim themselves Christians. Being a ‘secular Christian’ is easy for the most part, that was not what I was referring to.

Yes, not believing you have an enemy is excellent protection :rolleyes:

I don’t belong to any religious organization, but since this is yet another “let’s bash religion” thread, I have a story to tell.

Last week, Oklahoma was hit by the biggest ice storm in it’s recorded history, my city, Tulsa, was in the middle of the hardest hit. There were 234,000 homes and businesses without power due to the storm. Several churches that still had power opened their doors as shelters, they provided a warm place to sleep and a hot meal to those who had none. One church without power cooked meals in the dark using miner’s lamps. The religious also went door to door in some neighborhoods offering help. “Remote the plank from your own eye before trying to remove the mote from your brother’s.”

**
monavis** sin does not mean a violation, it means to miss the mark. When we sin we miss the glory of God, one ‘miss’ is all it takes and we fall short. If the Hammarabi code was a law or code of coduct, much like rules of etiquette it doesn’t matter, one mistake and you didn’t make the mark.

Prove it. You can’t even prove there is a God, or an Enemy, much less what they are like or what they want. Assuming your bogeymen were real, how do you know that God isn’t the evil side ? How do you know Satan isn’t the good guy and who we should listen to ?

People are Christian if they say they are Christian. There is no objective definition to the term and no central authority that can determine who is or isn’t. And no, God doesn’t count. Not only is God fictional, but Christianity is a human created belief system/social structure anyway, so even if he was real it wouldn’t matter

No, but the enemy being a silly delusion is. You can gibber all you like about demons but only fools will ever believe you.

Hate. It’s a good thing. :smiley:

Pastor Phelps agrees.

Oh ? And in what way is believing in demons not silly ? Would you care to defend that belief yourself ? Or is this going to be another one of your irrelevant comments designed to handwave my criticism aside ?

Let me guess; it’s a religious belief, and therefore “deserves respect” no matter how blatantly insane it is. Or you won’t bother to defend it at all. When your basic worldview is a fantasy, I guess you get used to just ignoring things that intrude on it. :rolleyes:

Pretty much. Then accuse you of doing the same thing on your side.