Not to suggest anything about you personally, but many of the women who would argue this also are in favor of banning pornography as objectification of women.
A world without women jumping up and down in leotards and without porn to boot is just too terrible to contemplate.
Won’t someone think of the men and teenage boys??!!
No. But I do have a cite for this being a sundown town in the 1990s.
Does that count?
I also see this from wiki:
Interesting article
When Signs Said ‘Get Out’ - In ‘Sundown Towns,’ Racism in the Rearview Mirror
James Loewen is not what I consider a credible source. The man has an ideological view to promote and he selects his evidence to support it.
Examples of such posts?
Major restaurant chains are slow to expand into middle class and upper-middle class black neighborhoods and suburbs. Why? Not because they can’t get customers, but because they can’t find enough wait staff who would want to work there, because of the … uhhh, I’ll just say that we’ve discussed it here before.
While I don’t see a national chain discriminating against anyone, a local restaurant that discriminates against blacks will probably find a lot of wait staff beating down the door for jobs there.
Stereotypical tipping habits ?
You have to name them. I was a racial minority in my neighborhood in several places throughout my life. Even in one of the large cities I lived in, there was a lot of racial boundaries. I lived in one of the darkest areas on this map for a few years. I heard some comments from neighboring people about “why does a white person live here,” but I was not denied housing in the area and I was not driven out, and those are the hallmarks of Sundown Towns.
Eventually class becomes more of a determining factor as well: There are no neighborhoods of affluent black people that I know of where they systematically discourage white neighbors which seems to be the hallmark of a Sundown Town. A white male may feel more comfortable living in a poor white neighborhood than a predominantly black one but that discomfort has traditionally not been instigated by pogroms.
You have some kind of citations to support this opinion, I assume?
But you see, the bad guys aren’t the ones who support segregation. The bad guys are the ones who oppose segregation and believe themselves entitled to use the power of the state to end it. People naturally prefer to associate with others like themselves, and demanding that they should not is both irrational and unjust. Even white liberals start moving out of a neighborhood along with the rest of the whites when they sense the neighborhood is becoming too dark. (The tipping point seems to be around 30%.)
So long as it is not mandated by the state, there is no reason that whites–or anybody else–should not have their own racially exclusive communities and institutions. Unforced segregation is not evil. Forced integration is.
"Unforced segregation is not evil. Forced integration is. "
George Wallace? Is that you?
If I listen to Rush Limbaugh I don’t need somebody to tell me he has an ideological bias - I can see it one my own. Same thing with Loewen when I read his books.
Heck, no. Wallace was a backslider who eventually said segregation was wrong. Not LonesomePolecat.
So are you challenging parts of Loewen’s research, or are you challenging the entire premise that there were sundown suburbs?
It can be a little difficult to find non-“ideological” sources to verify the existence of segregated communities. I looked up the official history of one of our local sundown suburbs. You’d have to flip back and forth between the town’s history and that of the local school district to determine there was any racial undertone behind the founding of the town whatsoever.
I also looked up my own suburb’s official history of its annexation of a historically black neighborhood. Nowhere is it noted that the neighborhood not only was historically black, but that was because it was one of the few subdivisions in the county that allowed sales to blacks.
It’s not the kind of thing that a lot of people are going to admit.
So the answer’s no then?
Fixed. It has nothing to do with color. It has everything to do with the second part, where you opine that it’s race-based, but end up at a better reason with the relative failure of the law but don’t advance to the real reason: poverty.
Not in a Constitutional Republic. If a group of people are being subjugated to the whims of a majority, the Constitution must be upheld. If that means forcing the majority to stop denying rights to others because they have shown that they cannot manage it on their own (which has often been the case in American history), then simply maintaining the status quo is the biggest evil of all.
One thing to keep in mind about the “jim crow” era was that much of the discrimination by business concerns was not by their choice, but rather that the law required them to maintain exclusive or separate accommodations. If you had the black half of your diner, bar, or hotel 3/4 empty, and an overflow crowd in the white half, you were shit out of luck. You had to turn away customers, even though you had plenty of excess capacity. In many cases, it was only the requirements of the law keeping every establishment equally non-competitive that prevented many business owners from going integrated. Of course there will always be people who will run segregated establishments if it’s legal to do so, but unless the law requires segregation, if your community is 6% bigot, only 6% of the bar seats will be segregated. There isn’t enough market to support more. Should segregation be allowed as long as it’s not mandated? That’s an argument I will leave to others, because I don’t give enough of a shit either way to bother debating.
I agree some white only business would open, but it wouldn’t be nearly as bad as it was. I think people over 40 can remember the “bad days” and think the worst. The younger generation never knew and even worse, doesn’t want to learn.
As a gay man, I lived through the worst of AIDS and HIV. But I find it astounding that young people today, don’t care about that. They almost all tell me, “Who cares, that’s past.”
