# Would producing a birth certificate do any good? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 12, 2011, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117 "2011-02-12T09:56:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/181 "2011-02-14T01:56:22Z")
That’s actually crossed my mind, but I don’t think there’s any way a birther, no matter how prominent, would be allowed to be alone with the document. I’m sure there would be several state officials along, backed up by law enforcement. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/182 "2011-02-14T03:17:55Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Does anyone else think that the ultimate purpose of all the conspiracy talk is so some Head Nutjob in Chief, the Prince or Queen of the Rightwing Whackjobs (Michelle Bachmann or Alan Keyes or someone) is finally granted a one-time exception to the laws of the state of Hawaii, and gets to inspect the actual original Certificate of Birth, and then–instead of testifying afterwards as to its authenticity (or inauthenicity)–pisses on it, tears it up, and then burns it up (well, maybe tears, burns and pisses on the ashes) and from then on in, THERE REALLY IS NO ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE ANYMORE AND IT IS FOREVER AN UNANSWERABLE QUESTION? > > Because that’s what I think the plan is. Actually, that’s the plot outline for next summer’s _Rocky II (and Bullwinkle, Too!: Boris and Natasha’s Big Adwenture_, with Special Guest Star Glen Beck as the voice of Overton W Peabody, the Genius Talking Dog, and Orly Taitz as Sherman. Hilarious Hijinx guaranteed! ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/183 "2011-02-14T03:43:10Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It does seem very odd to me that the issue is shrouded in so much mystery. I do recall reading once that the hospital was refusing to release the long form because that is their policy and they don’t release them for anyone. I would think that the president of the United States, if he were so inclined, would easily have enough clout to override this hospital’s ‘policy’ practices where his own records are concerned. Let the record show that **Starving Artist** endorses Presidential lawlessness and abuse of power. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/184 "2011-02-14T03:45:09Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Go look at the fucking picture, you illiterate imbecile. It clearly shows that there are no stars in the “lunar” sky. The hoax stands exposed! ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/185 "2011-02-14T03:50:11Z")
The Hawaiian governor has weighed in: [Hawaii Gov. Says Proof of Obama's Birth Certificate Exists but Hasn't Produced the Document - ABC News](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-birth-hawaii-gov-proof-presidents-birth-certificate/story?id=12721552) (apologies if this has already been posted but I’m not going to wade through 4 pages of birther drivel to check) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/186 "2011-02-14T04:04:01Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Diogenes the Un-cynic wrote: > > Really? Then just show me Obama’s original long form birth certificate, his hospital admissions forms and medical records, his passport records, his financial aid records, his Harvard Law review papers, his school records, his adoption papers, his legal documents changing his name from Barry Soetoro to Barack Obama, etc, etc. Just show me where those were posted and I’ll shut the fuck up. Otherwise, you shut the fuck up. Oh, and those drawings he did when he was little – you know, the ones his grandmother would hang up on the fridge? Can’t forget those! ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/187 "2011-02-14T04:07:34Z")
> [@TravisFromOR](#): > > MacDuff, from the play Hamlet. [NOPARSE][BIRTHER LOGIC][/NOPARSE] This inconsistency is the smoking gun that proves that the plays attributed to Shakespeare were in fact written by Francis Bacon. [NOPARSE][/BIRTHER LOGIC][/NOPARSE] ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/188 "2011-02-14T04:49:28Z")
“The common curse of mankind, – folly and ignorance.” “Either thou art most ignorant by age, or thou wert born a fool!” -Shakespeare Just like the french, the birthers just will be remembered as the losers, becoming more irrelevant as time goes by, still doubting his birth and lawful progeny. ---
**Author:** ![Man\_from\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Man\_from\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_from_Mars)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/189 "2011-02-14T05:14:13Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Finally, I love how easy it is to piss off worthless piece of shit liberals like you. It’s fun watching you rant and foam at the mouth. Now go take a valium and shut the fuck up. That’s funny. The only person foaming at the mouth here is you. Frederick Douglass wrote his life story and not one time in the entire work referred in a derogatory manner to any of the people who abused him, demoralized him, hurt his body, mind, and soul. He had every right to call them names but he didn’t and that lend a great amount of credibility to his powerful story. What we have with you is the complete opposite of this great man. All we have is you calling people “libtards” and “douchlibs.” Did I miss anything? Oh, yeah, your clever and stupidly asinine renaming of the posters here. Maybe you should think about taking that valium buddy and try to do something more worthwhile with your life than write a hundred posts a day on a topic that only makes anyone with two brain cells know sad and pathetic your life must be. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/190 "2011-02-14T05:22:59Z")
Before I post below I want to reiterate that I am not a “birther,” I never have been a bither, and that the questions I raised earlier in the thread were simply devil’s advocate questions based upon bits of information I’d read on various news sites which pertained to birther concerns and attitudes. With that in mind let me, let me iterate certain parts of that News article which substantiates or legitimizes certain things that have either been vehemently denied by various posters to this thread or attributed merely to nutjob fantasies and attitudes. First we have the headline: > [@](#): > > **Hawaii Gov. Says Proof of Obama’s Birth Certificate Exists but Hasn’t Produced the Document** Followed by: > [@](#): > > It remains unclear if the document found in the archives was Obama’s actual long-form birth certificate, which “birther” activists have clamored for, or if it was simply a record that such a document exists. > [@](#): > > “Our investigation is showing, it actually exists in the archives written down,” Democratic Gov. Neil Abercrombie told Honolulu’s Star-Advertiser. > [@](#): > > “What I can do, and all I have ever said, is that I am going to see to it as governor that I can verify to anyone who is honest about it that this is the case” > [@](#): > > Abercrombie said the controversy over publicly producing the document “has a political implication for 2012 that we simply cannot have.” > [@](#): > > Despite his assurance to end the controversy, the governor has yet to present the document. > [@](#): > > Those clamoring for proof of Obama’s Hawaiian birth want to see the original long-form certificate that includes the name of the hospital and the doctor, his or her signature, the baby’s birth weight and the national origin of the parents. The Obama campaign released a “certification of live birth” – a shorter document that carries the same legal weight as the long one in 2008. > [@](#): > > Liberal MSNBC talk-show host Chris Matthews last month also called on the White House to release the documents. > > “I am not a birther, I am an enemy of the birthers,” Matthews said on his show “Hardball.” But “why has the president himself not demanded that they put out the initial documents?” So, we have it from a reliable, non-nutjob site that “long form” birth certificates do appear to exist after all. We also see that an “investigation” apparently had to be launched to determine whether Obama’s long form record does indeed exist. We also see that the effort so far has not necessarily been fruitful, given that there is apparently confusion over whether the document has actually been found or merely a different record pointing to it. And then we have both Governor Abercrombie and Chris Matthews agreeing with me that the issues surrounding the long form document is important enough that the document ought to to be found and verified to the American public, with Matthews himself wondering, as I did, why Obama hasn’t demanded that the appropriate documents be released. Now, throughout most of my devil’s advocate participation in this thread, which was based almost exclusively upon issues raised by ABC News itself in this article from from less than a month ago, I was repeatedly reviled and insulted, with a couple of posters even expressing disappointment and sadness that I could fall for and post all this, even from a devil’s advocate position and based upon the scant information I had at that time, which was apparently gleaned from sites such as ABC News itself. So my question is, do I get an apology now from all the posters who made fun of or insulted me in this thread for raising these very issues…or are ABC News reporters, editors, and Chris Matthews himself, idiotic, racist, wackaloon right-wing nutjobs? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/191 "2011-02-14T05:25:21Z")
Obama’s “long form” birth certificate has indeed been located and verified by the state of Hawaii. You are misinformed. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/192 "2011-02-14T05:32:50Z")
News of a hoax travel fast for **Starving Artist** , but the truth just put his pants on: [http://mediamatters.org/blog/201101270012](http://mediamatters.org/blog/201101270012) > [@](#): > > On January 20, Mike Evans, a relatively unknown celebrity journalist, claimed on a Twin Cities classic rock station that he had talked to Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie (D) and “Neil says that he searched everywhere using his powers as governor … there is no Barack Obama birth certificate in Hawaii. Absolutely no proof at all that he was born in Hawaii.” > > Evans’ story was a hoax. Six days later, Evans told [FoxNews.com](http://FoxNews.com) that “Neil never told me there was no birth certificate … I never talked to him.”\* > > The retraction wasn’t surprising. There is no evidence President Obama was born outside of the United States, and Abercrombie told the Honolulu Star-Advertiser on January 18 that Hawaii indeed has proof of Obama’s birth. > > As a result of their complete lack of evidence, the “birther” movement has been fueled by purported scoops that have turned out to be completely wrong. > > In other words, responsible media outlets should have been hesitant to promote the Evans “no proof” story. Instead several, led by Mediaite, helped legitimize the story, and fuel the fantasies of birthers. So yeah, you are still gullible with misleading information (Why is that many on the right do not complain ever to the sources that gave them that tripe?). So, no apology nor cookie to you. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/193 "2011-02-14T05:39:00Z")
That’s true, **SA**. I don’t think you’re dishonest but just have bad information. The “they can’t find the birth certificate” story was a radio hoax. The last Governor of Hawaii (a Republican), confirmed that the original dicument had indeed been found and verified. Believe me. If there was anything to this Birther thing, Hillary would have rooted it out. She’s the most formidable political opponent Obama has ever had. Not McCain or Palin, but Hillary. If there was any real dirt on Obama. Hillary would have found it. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/194 "2011-02-14T05:47:12Z")
Robot Arm wrote: > [@](#): > > What proof would either of you accept as irrefutable? Is there anyone whose testimony you would believe about Obama’s birth certificate, or must you see it with your own eyes? Would you like to touch it, inhale the musty smell of a decades-old document? Do you have the skills to detect a forgery, analyze the paper and ink, run it through an electron microscope, perhaps? And if, hypothetically, you did all this and were convinced it was genuine, would you expect anyone to take your word for it; or must we hand it over to the thousands who would want to examine it for themselves? > > What proof would you accept? Well, considering how long this deceit has been going on, and considering how dishonest Obama and his administration and the liberals in government are, I would accept nothing less than a true forensic examination of the document by impartial third parties (plural). I would not, for example, accept a scan of it posted online, with an affidavit from Obama’s appointed science czar. No, I would not have to see it myself. But it would need to be open to scrutiny and forensic examination by several qualified people. It’s been almost 3 years since the issue came up, and Obama has had 3 years to work on forging stuff. I read a comment on some site I can’t remember, where someone claimed to have heard from someone “connected” that an old fashioned typewriter had been purchased by someone in Obama’s clique of co-conspirators, and a printer from 1961 as well and all sorts of talk about aging a new “false” document and so on and so forth. To me, that’s just internet rumor and unverifiable conspiracy theory, but on the other hand I would not be surprised if it ends up being true. Socialist liberals like Obama will stop at nothing to gain and retain power. I wouldn’t trust him if he said the sky is blue, at this point. So yes, a full forensic exam to test the ink, the paper, the seal, the signatures, everything. And supporting documentation. His passport records, adoption papers, school records, health records, social security records, etc. People who use the derogatory “birther” appellation fail to understand that the birth certificate is only one piece of a bigger problem, although a very significant founding piece. I for one need to know how and why he’s using the social security number of a man born in 1890 and registered in Connecticut. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/195 "2011-02-14T05:49:48Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > News of a hoax travel fast for **Starving Artist** , but the truth just put his pants on: > > [http://mediamatters.org/blog/201101270012](http://mediamatters.org/blog/201101270012) > So yeah, you are still gullible with misleading information (Why is that many on the right do not complain ever to the sources that gave them that tripe?). So, no apology nor cookie to you. Neither Media Matters nor Mike Evans are who I quoted. All the info I just posted comes from ABC News’ website, as per **China Guy’s** link. So I’ll still be waiting for either that apology or that cookie, but of course if you want to demonstrate absolutely sterling character, you could provide both. 🙂 ETA: Also note that the ABC article does not claim that Obama’s long form records do not exist, rather that something has been located but it’s unclear as to whether that is the document itself or a different document pointing to it. And might I remind you **Dio** - with all due respect, and I think you know I mean that - that you insisted there was no such thing as “long form” birth certificates. So now I’m left to wonder who’s right…you, or ABC News? ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/196 "2011-02-14T05:49:57Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > I for one need to know how and why he’s using the social security number of a man born in 1890 and registered in Connecticut. Is he now? I certainly hope the whole 1890 was a typo, since, you know, Social Security didn’t exist until 1935. Or is that another liberal conspiracy? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/197 "2011-02-14T05:50:13Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > I for one need to know how and why he’s using the social security number of a man born in 1890 and registered in Connecticut. Okay, contemptible swine, let’s go: cite? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/198 "2011-02-14T05:52:11Z")
COT., We already noticed that you are a wanna be birther, of course the conclusion is that that is even more retarded. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/199 "2011-02-14T05:56:46Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And might I remind you **Dio** - with all due respect, and I think you know I mean that - that you insisted there was no such thing as “long form” birth certificates. So now I’m left to wonder who’s right…you, or ABC News? Me. There is an original. archived document, but the termn “long form” is not used officially. Obama’s original birth certificate has indeed been found and verified. Not that he could have gotten the computer genberated “Certificate of Live Birth” without one (and, for what its’ worth, that exactly what I have for my own kids. I’ve never seen their originaldocuments either. I’m guessing that you’ve never seen your own, for that matter, and no other President has ever been expected to produce one. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/200 "2011-02-14T05:58:04Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Socialist liberals like Obama will stop at nothing to gain and retain power. Really? Do you have any other examples of socialist liberals who exhibit this tendency? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117.md?page=11)