# Would producing a birth certificate do any good? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 12, 2011, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117 "2011-02-12T09:56:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/221 "2011-02-14T06:33:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > As stated in the ABC News report, Chris Matthews also questioned why Obama doesn’t release the original document. Now maybe that is contrary to Hawaiian law, and maybe it isn’t. I don’t know. But what I do know is that you’re unlikely to assign the same motives to Matthews’ statement as you do to mine, yet they’re virtually identical. So unless you’re willing to attribute the same malice to Chris Matthews as you do to me, I suggest you owe me an apology as well. I don’t thinks it is malice, but ignorance and ratings.. And that goes for you too.. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/222 "2011-02-14T06:37:50Z")
Robot Arm wrote: > [@](#): > > Would you mind posting some documentary evidence of that? Thanks so much. Are you fucking kidding me? You need a fucking CITATION to believe that people can release a copy of their own birth certificate? :eek::rolleyes: Here. And it’s from Hawaii. > **[Hawaii State Department of Health](https://health.hawaii.gov)** > > Promoting Lifelong Health & Wellness > [@](#): > > A certified copy of a vital record (birth, death, marriage, or divorce certificate) is issued only to an applicant who has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons are considered to have such an interest: > > [ul] > [li]the registrant (the person whom the record is concerned with);[/li][li]the registrant’s spouse;[/li][li]the registrant’s parent(s);[/li][li]a descendant of the registrant (e.g., a child or grandchild);[/li][li]a person having a common ancestor with the registrant (e.g., a sibling, grandparent, aunt/uncle, or cousin);[/li][li]a legal guardian of the registrant;[/li][li]a person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant;[/li][li]a personal representative of the registrant’s estate;[/li][li]a person whose right to obtain a copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction;[/li][li]adoptive parents who have filed a petition for adoption and need to determine the death of one or more of the prospective adopted child’s natural or legal parents;[/li][li]a person who needs to determine the marital status of a former spouse in order to determine the payment of alimony;[/li][li]a person who needs to determine the death of a nonrelated co-owner of property purchased under a joint tenancy agreement; and[/li][li]a person who needs a death certificate for the determination of payments under a credit insurance policy.[/li][/ul] Michelle Obama, their kids, Obama’s sister, etc…they could all file and receive a copy. So can Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/223 "2011-02-14T06:38:06Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > This is why it needs a major investigation and court hearing. Let the Supreme Court hear the case, have the evidence presented (the long form birth certificate, social security records, etc), and allow experts to examine the evidence and lawyers try the case. These problems will NEVER go away until that is done. Period. There are so many conflicting facts and dead ends and false starts and contradictions and outright lies that it sends up a huge red flag that something isn’t kosher. Supreme Court Justices Kennedy and Scalia considered the case, determined it was without merit, and refused to grant certiorari. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/224 "2011-02-14T06:38:47Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I thought I made already clear that I was mistaken in referring to the wignuttery of the ABC article, I was actually referring to the overall picture and to a poster that had just made a similarly worded post dealing with the hoax I referred to on Great Debates. Okay, I wasn’t quite sure what you were saying with that post. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > But, seeing that you continue with the “just questions” act one wonders what good any further acknowledgments of getting one bit wrong will do. I’m doing no such thing. I stated three areas where I was insulted for posting things that were supported as fact in the ABC News article, and I’m asking for apologies from the posters who insulted me and called into question my mental competence for having allegedly bought into them. And IIRC, you were one of those posters. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/225 "2011-02-14T06:40:20Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Are you fucking kidding me? You need a fucking CITATION to believe that people can release a copy of their own birth certificate? :eek::rolleyes: [And here’s the birth certificate in all it’s glory](http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/graphics/birthCertObama.jpg). I trust you are satisfied and will now agree that Barack Obama is eligible to hold the office of President. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/226 "2011-02-14T06:41:20Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Robot Arm wrote: > > Obama’s father could not pass citizenship to Obama, since he was a British citizen. Obama’s mother could not pass citizenship since at the time, if only one parent was a citizen, that parent must have lived in the USA for at least 10 years, at least 5 of which had to have been after the age of 16, meaning she had to have been 21 to have passed citizenship to him. > > This is why it needs a major investigation and court hearing. Let the Supreme Court hear the case, have the evidence presented (the long form birth certificate, social security records, etc), and allow experts to examine the evidence and lawyers try the case. These problems will NEVER go away until that is done. Period. There are so many conflicting facts and dead ends and false starts and contradictions and outright lies that it sends up a huge red flag that something isn’t kosher. He was born on American soil. That makes him a citizen. Done. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Doctor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/227 "2011-02-14T06:46:28Z")
Hey, **Champion of Truth**! Can you actually say anything without insulting people? I mean if you have valid arguements (big IF), then do you think anyone is going to respond to them because you bluster and call them names? You are acting like a big bully on the playground trying to terrorize all the little kids. And when they don’t cower in fear, you bluster more. People on this message board actually like to debate and argue over things. But you come across like a big bag of hatred for anyone who disagrees with you in the slightest. You should read the rules of this message board. The overriding rule which governs the more specific rules is “Don’t be a jerk”. You are violating this with almost every single post. Sure, this is the Pit and you can “get away with it here”. I don’t think you’d last 1 day in Great Debates without getting banned as you act like such an incredible jerk. You don’t convince anyone with your act. Why don’t you just get over yourself and post inteligent, well thought out responses to the questions that people ask? Be the bigger man and don’t respond to taunts and insults. This is probably going to get me added to the list of people being called names. If so, it will tell me where you are at. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/228 "2011-02-14T06:46:46Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > This is why it needs a major investigation and court hearing. Let the Supreme Court hear the case, have the evidence presented (the long form birth certificate, social security records, etc), and allow experts to examine the evidence and lawyers try the case. These problems will NEVER go away until that is done. Period. There are so many conflicting facts and dead ends and false starts and contradictions and outright lies that it sends up a huge red flag that something isn’t kosher. Of the few cases that \*\*did go already to the Supreme court \*\*the result was the same: The U.S. Supreme Court declined, without comment, to hear the case. (Kerchner v. Obama, Hollister v. Soetoro, Rhodes v. Macdonald) In essence, **supporting the lower court decisions** of dismissal, from lacking standing to being frivolous, going even to the extreme of demanding on occasion to show a reason why lawyers like Orily Tatz should not be sanctioned for initiating frivolous lawsuits. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/229 "2011-02-14T06:47:44Z")
Really Not All That Bright lives up to his stupid name when he says: > [@](#): > > [And here’s the birth certificate in all it’s glory](http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/graphics/birthCertObama.jpg). I trust you are satisfied and will now agree that Barack Obama is eligible to hold the office of President. How big a fucking idiot are you? Look dumbass…go look at the document pictured on your link and read what is written across the top: “CERTIFICATION of Live Birth” Now go look at what a CERTIFICATE of Birth looks like: > [@](#): > > [http://www.tommcmahon.net/2009/08/what-an-original-1961-longform-birth-certificate-from-the-state-of-hawaii-looks-like.html](http://www.tommcmahon.net/2009/08/what-an-original-1961-longform-birth-certificate-from-the-state-of-hawaii-looks-like.html) A CERTIFICATION of Birth is not a CERTIFICATE of Birth (aka a “birth certificate”). Jesus H. Christ, I know you liberals are stupider than fuck, but God almighty, we can’t even draw a fucking picture for you! Is there a word for illiteracy when it comes to looking at pictures? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/230 "2011-02-14T06:48:14Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I don’t thinks it is malice, but ignorance and ratings.. > > And that goes for you too.. 🙂 Nope. 😉 When I was posting last night I said I was putting forth questions and arguments as I understood them to be from the birther POV. People, and I believe you were one of them, claimed I was being ridiculous and idiotic for not knowing better. Now ABC News, a reputable site, confirms their validity. Thus you (and a fair number of posters who haven’t shown up yet) owe me an apology for the things you said last night with regard to them. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/231 "2011-02-14T06:48:41Z")
> [@Doctor](#): > > **Why don’t you just get over yourself and post inteligent, well thought out responses to the questions that people ask?** Be the bigger man and don’t respond to taunts and insults. > > This is probably going to get me added to the list of people being called names. If so, it will tell me where you are at. Because he can’t. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/232 "2011-02-14T06:49:59Z")
Doctor, I do not tolerate stupid people or assholes. The libtards at this site swarm like flies and cast lies and falsehoods about anyone with whom they disagree (ie anyone who doesn’t share their insane liberal agenda). Hence, they are fair game for my vitriol. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/233 "2011-02-14T06:50:10Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Okay, I wasn’t quite sure what you were saying with that post. > > I’m doing no such thing. I stated three areas where I was insulted for posting things that were supported as fact in the ABC News article, and I’m asking for apologies from the posters who insulted me and called into question my mental competence for having allegedly bought into them. > > And IIRC, you were one of those posters. :rolleyes: You \*\*are \*\*gullible SA, that has been demonstrated many times before. Seeing how you quoted the most seemingly questionable parts of an article that in reality was fair to all sides was misleading in context. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/234 "2011-02-14T06:51:54Z")
I’ll check in later tonight. I can only take so much of the stupidity oozing out of the liberals here at one time. Makes me crazy. Plus, it’s a major pain in the ass trying to weed out the actual posts worth replying to when the libtards post 200 spam posts per minute. That’s a lot of worthless crap to have to scan through in order to find the things deserving a reply. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/235 "2011-02-14T06:53:01Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Michelle Obama, their kids, Obama’s sister, etc…they could all file and receive a copy. So can Obama. He did already, and already showed to reporters even, did not help. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/236 "2011-02-14T06:53:59Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Doctor, I do not tolerate stupid people or assholes. The libtards at this site swarm like flies and cast lies and falsehoods about anyone with whom they disagree (ie anyone who doesn’t share their insane liberal agenda). Hence, they are fair game for my vitriol. They’re refuting your arguments and so-called cites. That’s how this place works. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/237 "2011-02-14T06:54:40Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Really Not All That Bright lives up to his stupid name when he says: > > How big a fucking idiot are you? Look dumbass…go look at the document pictured on your link and read what is written across the top: > > “CERTIFICATION of Live Birth” > > Now go look at what a CERTIFICATE of Birth looks like: > > A CERTIFICATION of Birth is not a CERTIFICATE of Birth (aka a “birth certificate”). > > Jesus H. Christ, I know you liberals are stupider than fuck, but God almighty, we can’t even draw a fucking picture for you! Is there a word for illiteracy when it comes to looking at pictures? You’re wrong. The birth certificate that Obama released is the same as my birth certificate. They’re the same thing. This is a fact and you’ve been shown it over and again. I assume you’re ignoring it because you’re too invested in the idea to accept evidence against it. They call that being a dipshit where I come from. You know you can petition for a name change from the moderators, right? I think Lying-Racist-Scumbag is available. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/238 "2011-02-14T06:55:08Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Robot Arm wrote: > > Are you fucking kidding me? You need a fucking CITATION to believe that people can release a copy of their own birth certificate? :eek::rolleyes: > > Here. And it’s from Hawaii. > > [Hawaii State Department of Health](http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/elig_vrcc.html) > > > [@](#): > > > > A certified copy of a vital record (birth, death, marriage, or divorce certificate) is issued only to an applicant who has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons are considered to have such an interest: > > > > ``` > > * the registrant (the person whom the record is concerned with); > > * the registrant’s spouse; > > * the registrant’s parent(s); > > * a descendant of the registrant (e.g., a child or grandchild); > > * a person having a common ancestor with the registrant (e.g., a sibling, grandparent, aunt/uncle, or cousin); > > * a legal guardian of the registrant; > > * a person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant; > > * a personal representative of the registrant’s estate; > > * a person whose right to obtain a copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction; > > * adoptive parents who have filed a petition for adoption and need to determine the death of one or more of the prospective adopted child’s natural or legal parents; > > * a person who needs to determine the marital status of a former spouse in order to determine the payment of alimony; > > * a person who needs to determine the death of a nonrelated co-owner of property purchased under a joint tenancy agreement; and > > * a person who needs a death certificate for the determination of payments under a credit insurance policy. > > > > ``` > > Michelle Obama, their kids, Obama’s sister, etc…they could all file and receive a copy. So can Obama. And a certified copy has been released. Haven’t you been clamoring for him to release the original? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/239 "2011-02-14T06:57:13Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > I’ll check in later tonight. I can only take so much of the stupidity oozing out of the liberals here at one time. Makes me crazy. Hey, we did not need confirmation of that! 🙂 > [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Plus, it’s a major pain in the ass trying to weed out the actual posts worth replying to when the libtards post 200 spam posts per minute. That’s a lot of worthless crap to have to scan through in order to find the things deserving a reply. It is hard to maintain cranky ideas going, I grant you that. BTW as **Really Not All That Bright** showed, you were misleading when you called me a liar regarding the ongoing court cases, but then again we also did not need confirmation of your dishonesty. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Doctor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/240 "2011-02-14T06:57:17Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Doctor, I do not tolerate stupid people or assholes. The libtards at this site swarm like flies and cast lies and falsehoods about anyone with whom they disagree (ie anyone who doesn’t share their insane liberal agenda). Hence, they are fair game for my vitriol. Then why do you bother to post here? You are not going to win any friends with your vitrol. Nobody is going to “see the light” as it were. I have no dog in this fight, but I really can’t see any advantage to you posting in this fashion unless it is simply to stir shit up. That, in my opinion, is being a jerk. If you do so, people are going to be jerks right back. So, I am honestly curious, what do you get out of this? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117.md?page=13)