# Would producing a birth certificate do any good? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 12, 2011, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117 "2011-02-12T09:56:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/261 "2011-02-14T08:20:10Z")
Because if she gave birth in America, she couldn’t kill that kid and substitute the one born to a jackal in Kenya! Plus, the nurses would surely notice the “666” on his head! Connect the dot, people! Connect the dot! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/262 "2011-02-14T08:25:56Z")
> [@](#): > > I was not wrong, it was a hoax, birthers have claimed that Abercrombie admitted that there was no birth certificate, that was not true. > [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Abercrombie said there was a “notation” somewhere. And I would trust a used car salesman before I trust a politician. Hah, that is funny, he told us before that he is not a birther, so why did he reply to that? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/263 "2011-02-14T08:27:11Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > But here you are still missing the point, reporting on the controversy does not mean that they are saying that point A or B are facts. Once again they are reporting on what politicians and American blobiators are saying. And seeing that **Chris is/was also being ridiculed** , I still do not see why you think the article helps you, it was clear already for years that birthers and people that just ask questions were going into tinfoil hat territory. I’m sure other posters are probably getting as tired of our back and forth as we are, but the point is that I was being accused of being a closet birther based on the assumption that I had to be getting all my crackpot ideas from reading or listening to birther screeds. The ABC News cite (yes, “cite” not site) shows that I was being truthful when I said I’d picked up my notions of birther arguments from mainstream news sources (and, although I didn’t mention it, from this board itself). The fact that the ABC News article says what it does shows both that the points I raised last night had reasonable merit, and that I was being truthful about where I got my information. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/264 "2011-02-14T08:30:48Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > WE. DO. NOT. KNOW. WHERE. OBAMA. WAS. ACTUALLY. BORN. “Who’s this ‘we,’ Kemosabe?” -Mad Magazine. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/265 "2011-02-14T08:32:53Z")
Oh c’mon **GIGO**. You are to make me laugh. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/266 "2011-02-14T08:34:54Z")
Elucidator wrote: > [@](#): > > Show us where this is written. Its very important, because it might be used to wipe out that whole “anchor baby” stuff about the children of illegal immigrants not being American citizens simply because the Constitution says so. And she wasn’t even an illegal immigrant. > > Wait. I’m assuming your not going to tell us his mom wasn’t a citizen? > > But show us where it says that. Not a transcription of the voices in your head, but an actual piece of legal stuff. A “cite”. First, I will no longer provide citations for you since no matter where they’re from, your only reply will be to disparage them unread. Google is your friend. Learn to use it. That was US Citizenship law from 1952 to 1986. Try Visalaw. Note that this applies to foreign born persons, but we don’t know where Obama was born, so we don’t know whether it applies to him. This is precisely why it needs to be brought in front of the Supreme Court. Nothing is certain when it comes to Obama. Now, WND did an investigation about Obama’s mama’s travels around the time of Obama’s birth, and WHOA, LOOK AT THIS! All her passport records were DESTROYED. Supposedly. :rolleyes: > **[Home 2024 \* WorldNetDaily](https://www.wnd.com/?pageId=186677)** > > A Free Press For A Free People Since 1997 > [@](#): > > Responding to a Freedom of Information Act request, the State Department has released passport records of Stanley Ann Dunham, President Obama’s mother – but records for the years surrounding Obama’s 1961 birth are missing. > The State Department claims a 1980s General Services Administration directive resulted in the destruction of many passport applications and other “nonvital” passport records, including Dunham’s 1965 passport application and any other passports she may have applied for or held prior to 1965. [COLOR=#000000] > Destroyed, then, would also be any records shedding light on whether Dunham did or did not travel out of the country around the time of Barack Obama’s birth. > [/COLOR] [COLOR=#000000] They deeper we dig, the more evidence we see being destroyed, misplaced, lost, etc. So if she traveled out of the country and gave birth to Obama in Kenya, or wherever, then she needed to find a way to give him citizenship. THEORY: So she travels back to Hawaii, swears out an affidavit that Obama was born in Hawaii, receives a COLB (which is worthless), the COLB generates an automatic announcement in the newspapers, and viola! Cover story! Small problem…she never could have dreamed that her son would one day run for president, and therefore open up a can of worms that until that time had no reason to be opened. [/COLOR] ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/267 "2011-02-14T08:36:41Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I was being truthful when I said I’d picked up my notions of birther arguments from mainstream news sources (and, although I didn’t mention it, from this board itself). The fact that the ABC News article says what it does shows both that the points I raised last night had reasonable merit, and that I was being truthful about where I got my information. And once again, look around and you will see that me and many others do ridicule the mainstream media many times for getting things wrong or by forgetting to clarify that one side in a controversy needs a tinfoil hat. (This is worse when the mainstream media reports science news). And this is one of those times. ---
**Author:** ![Sevastopol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cdc98d/32.png) [@Sevastopol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevastopol)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/268 "2011-02-14T08:36:43Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > I woke up with a cold this morning and have felt like shit all day. Hopefully I’ll feel better tomorrow. Rest and lots of liquids. ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/269 "2011-02-14T08:38:46Z")
> [@Sevastopol](#): > > Rest and lots of liquids. I rested all day. It’s pretty boring, really. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/270 "2011-02-14T08:49:14Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > But here you are still missing the point, reporting on the controversy does not mean that they are saying that point A or B are facts. Once again they are reporting on what politicians and American blobiators are saying. Well, it does state as fact in the ABC News article that Abercrombie’s “investigation” into Obama’s long form document has revealed that the document exists, but that isn’t clear whether the document itself has been found in the archives or merely a record of some sort pointing to it. So although I don’t doubt Obama’s qualifications to be president, I do have to admit that all this raises questions. Why was an investigation needed? Why couldn’t someone just go to where Obama’s birth record is filed and get it? Why the need for a document pointing to a document? Why isn’t it clear whether the document itself was found or just some other document showing its location? And finally, why isn’t someone able to determine what the found document is? There may be perfectly logical answers to all this, but you have to admit it seems awfully odd, especially the part about how someone (Hawaiian authorities or state workers I imagine) found something but they don’t know what it is, and that the governor, eager to get his hands on that record and announce its legitimacy to the nation, apparently doesn’t have enough suck to say “Dammit, I want that document and I want it now! So go find it!” All these facts put together add up to a very unlikely scenario, even to me, a non-birther. Wouldn’t you agree? > [@GIGObuster](#): > > And once again, look around and you will see that me and many others do ridicule the mainstream media many times for getting things wrong or by forgetting to clarify that one side in a controversy needs a tinfoil hat. (This is worse when the mainstream media reports science news). > > And this is one of those times. But for purposes of this discussion that doesn’t matter. The question here isn’t whether the media are getting their facts straight, it’s a question of whether or not I’m getting my information from mainstream sources. The ABC article clearly lends credence to the points I was raising last night and legitimizes my assertions as to how I came to know of them. And though it’s beside the point, I haven’t yet seen anything in the way of a cite to show that the facts as reported in that article are erroneous. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/271 "2011-02-14T08:54:55Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Class dismissed. Don’t be a jerk. You’re not worth anyone’s time, and frankly, I’m disappointed in folks here that should know better. You’re ignored, and I look forward to the day sometime this week when you’re banned. What’s the over/under on that? I’m going with before Wednesday. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/272 "2011-02-14T08:58:14Z")
The problem is that liberals don’t want to believe their beloved minority president could possibly be a criminal, a fraud, a usurper. They love their diversity worship and the idea of having a black president more than they love their country. That’s why he got a pass. Because he’s black. End of story. Just compare how they treated Obama vs. how they treated McCain. McCain had to go through a CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATION, while all questions about Obama were given a total pass by the liberal news media. Only a completely ignorant fool could possibly fail to see that there are lots of strange, bizarre, disturbing things going on concerning Obama’s past. The fact that he’s hidden so much of his past, the fact that he lied about transparency (and so many other things), the fact that important documentation that could shed light on his past are suddenly disappearing…this is a serious issue. Only a slacker citizen would not want this investigated. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/273 "2011-02-14T09:01:32Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > The problem is that liberals don’t want to believe their beloved minority president could possibly be a criminal, a fraud, a usurper. They love their diversity worship and the idea of having a black president more than they love their country. That’s why he got a pass. Because he’s black. End of story. Just compare how they treated Obama vs. how they treated McCain. McCain had to go through a CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATION, while all questions about Obama were given a total pass by the liberal news media. > > Only a completely ignorant fool could possibly fail to see that there are lots of strange, bizarre, disturbing things going on concerning Obama’s past. The fact that he’s hidden so much of his past, the fact that he lied about transparency (and so many other things), the fact that important documentation that could shed light on his past are suddenly disappearing…this is a serious issue. > > Only a slacker citizen would not want this investigated. Wait, what? McCain had to be investigated by congress in order to run for president? Cite please. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/274 "2011-02-14T09:03:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Why was an investigation needed? For political grandstanding, really. The governor was tired of the dumb-ass birthers and he decided to press for the investigation and release of the documents, unfortunately he could not change the law so the only thing he could do is to prove it to himself. > **[Why Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie is taking on anti-Obama 'birthers'](https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2010/1228/Why-Hawaii-Gov.-Neil-Abercrombie-is-taking-on-anti-Obama-birthers)** > > Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie says he is disgusted by the 'birther' claims that President Obama was not born in the state. He's vowing to change state law in order to prove Obama right. As most reasonable people would had told him, it was just going to generate the hoaxes and misleading information that birthers produce the nanosecond a confusing bit comes to light. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/275 "2011-02-14T09:06:24Z")
Travis, who clearly was out of the country investigating Obama’s possible foreign origins during the presidential election, wrote: > [@](#): > > Wait, what? > > McCain had to be investigated by congress in order to run for president? > > Cite please. Maybe you should read some news from 2008. McCain suffered through a Congressional investigation as to whether he was eligible due to being born in the Panama Canal. Try keeping up with (relatively) recent events,huh? ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/276 "2011-02-14T09:11:48Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > T > Maybe you should read some news from 2008. McCain suffered through a Congressional investigation as to whether he was eligible due to being born in the Panama Canal. Try keeping up with (relatively) recent events,huh? Hmm…I’ve tried finding evidence of such an investigation. All I could find was something about a resolution proclaiming him eligible to be President. But then I was looking through liberal rags such as FoxNews. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/277 "2011-02-14T09:12:54Z")
McCain served in the US Navy as a Commissioned Officer. One must be a US citizen to be such. And prior to receiving a commission, one’s background is checked for such things as crimes, foreign associations, and, of course, citizenship. As the man has never been naturalized, he’s been a citizen from birth, a natural-born citizen. CoT: Obama was born in Hawaii. There is no doubt about it. All you’re doing is making yourself look more idiotic with every post you make. If you’re truly lucky, the mods will ban you soon so you won’t peg that meter. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/278 "2011-02-14T09:17:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And though it’s beside the point, I haven’t yet seen anything in the way of a cite to show that the facts as reported in that article are erroneous. Ok, then we are indeed entering willful ignorance terrain, once again: they are reporting on the controversy, they are not reporting on who has the truth, just on what the sides are saying, still, it does not really offer much support for what you are pushing. The same article ends with: > [@](#): > > The nonpartisan group [FactCheck.org](http://FactCheck.org) determined the document was authentic, writing on its blog, “Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.” > > Archives of two local papers – the Honolulu Star Bulletin and Honolulu Advertiser – also contain birth announcements for a young Obama son in early August 1961. > > Still, 14 percent of Americans say, without prompting, that they think Obama was born in another country, according to the most recent ABC News-Washington Post poll. It is true that 14 percent have a birther **opinion** , but it is also true that a majority has the opinion that Obama was born in America, and this is based on the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/279 "2011-02-14T09:23:16Z")
From Gico’s article cited: > [@](#): > > The trouble is, the facts are out there already, and they haven’t succeeded in quelling the certainty of those determined [not to believe them](http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2009/0722/blogosphere-goes-bonkers-over-birthers). In addition to the “certificate of live birth” released by the Obama campaign when the rumors first started circulating – which groups like [factcheck.org](http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html) have concluded is authentic – there were two separate birth announcements in local papers at the time (Aug. 4, 1961). So much disinformation, I’m starting to think Obama’s mama was a Soviet spy and Obama a secret Soviet operative. Let’s look at the LIES and DISINFORMATION contained in that article. First, a CERTIFICATE of live birth has NEVER been released, least of all by the Obama administration. People need to learn to differentiate between a worthless, short form CERTIFICATION of Live Birth (short form certification of birth) and a CERTIFICATE of Live Birth (long form “birth certificate”). Second, [Factcheck.org](http://Factcheck.org) has no way to “confirm” the information on the CERTIFICATION of birth without access to the original, long form CERTIFICATE of live birth. Third, in the age of computers, a CERTIFICATION of live birth is too easily forged to be a reliable proof of anything. Fourth, the newspaper announcements are meaningless because they were auto-generated by the Dept. of Health when the worthless CERTIFICATION of birth was filed. They prove nothing. Finally, [Factcheck.org](http://Factcheck.org) is run by the Annenberg Foundation, of which Obama and his mentor, terrorist Bill Ayers, are members and/or directors. As such, and considering that Obama chose Factcheck to “verify” his birth records, anything they say is extremely suspect at the very least. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/280 "2011-02-14T09:26:14Z")
You keep saying that the Certificate of Live Birth is useless. But it is apparently acceptable to every governmental organization in the US. To whom, besides, psychotic morons, is it worthless? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117.md?page=15)