# Would producing a birth certificate do any good? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 12, 2011, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117 "2011-02-12T09:56:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/281 "2011-02-14T09:36:00Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > So much disinformation, I’m starting to think Obama’s mama was a Soviet spy and Obama a secret Soviet operative. Let’s look at the LIES and DISINFORMATION contained in that article. > > First, a CERTIFICATE of live birth has NEVER been released, least of all by the Obama administration. People need to learn to differentiate between a worthless, short form CERTIFICATION of Live Birth (short form certification of birth) and a CERTIFICATE of Live Birth (long form “birth certificate”). > > Second, [Factcheck.org](http://Factcheck.org) has no way to “confirm” the information on the CERTIFICATION of birth without access to the original, long form CERTIFICATE of live birth. > > Third, in the age of computers, a CERTIFICATION of live birth is too easily forged to be a reliable proof of anything. > > Fourth, the newspaper announcements are meaningless because they were auto-generated by the Dept. of Health when the worthless CERTIFICATION of birth was filed. They prove nothing. > > Finally, [Factcheck.org](http://Factcheck.org) is run by the Annenberg Foundation, of which Obama and his mentor, terrorist Bill Ayers, are members and/or directors. As such, and considering that Obama chose Factcheck to “verify” his birth records, anything they say is extremely suspect at the very least. OooooooooooK. I see that he needs these instructions: > **[AFDB | Building](https://zapatopi.net/afdb/build.html)** > > Information about psychotronic mind control blockage using an Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/282 "2011-02-14T09:44:48Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Obama can legally release his birth certificate, as can any other (supposed) citizen. That’s not an act of “presidential lawlessness” or an “abuse of power”. Obama, like anyone else, can legally release his (assuming it even exists!) long form birth certificate. It has nothing to do with presidential abuse. > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Would you mind posting some documentary evidence of that? Thanks so much. > [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Robot Arm wrote: > > Are you fucking kidding me? You need a fucking CITATION to believe that people can release a copy of their own birth certificate? :eek::rolleyes: > > Here. And it’s from Hawaii. > > [Hawaii State Department of Health](http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/elig_vrcc.html) > > > [@](#): > > > > A certified copy of a vital record (birth, death, marriage, or divorce certificate) is issued only to an applicant who has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons are considered to have such an interest: > > > > ``` > > * the registrant (the person whom the record is concerned with); > > * the registrant’s spouse; > > * the registrant’s parent(s); > > * a descendant of the registrant (e.g., a child or grandchild); > > * a person having a common ancestor with the registrant (e.g., a sibling, grandparent, aunt/uncle, or cousin); > > * a legal guardian of the registrant; > > * a person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant; > > * a personal representative of the registrant’s estate; > > * a person whose right to obtain a copy of the record is established by an order of a court of competent jurisdiction; > > * adoptive parents who have filed a petition for adoption and need to determine the death of one or more of the prospective adopted child’s natural or legal parents; > > * a person who needs to determine the marital status of a former spouse in order to determine the payment of alimony; > > * a person who needs to determine the death of a nonrelated co-owner of property purchased under a joint tenancy agreement; and > > * a person who needs a death certificate for the determination of payments under a credit insurance policy. > > > > ``` > > Michelle Obama, their kids, Obama’s sister, etc…they could all file and receive a copy. So can Obama. You have gone on at great length in this thread requesting Obama to release his original birth certificate. Your cite only says that certain interested parties may be issued a certified copy. Your cite does not back up your claim. Please try again to find a cite that any citizen may release to the public his original, long-form birth certificate. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/283 "2011-02-14T09:59:42Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Ok, then we are indeed entering willful ignorance terrain, once again: they are reporting on the controversy, they are not reporting on who has the truth, just on what the sides are saying, still, it does not really offer much support for what you are pushing. Of course they are reporting what the sides are saying. That’s what news organizations do. However, when they say something like this: > [@](#): > > Officials in Hawaii say they have located President Obama’s birth certificate indicating that he was born in the state, but have yet to produce the document at the heart of a long-simmering conspiracy theory. They are quoting state government officials, and noting that despite what the officals say, they are yet to produce documentation to support their claims. They are making a factual statement backed by the integrity of ABC News. When they say: > [@](#): > > It remains unclear if the document found in the archives was Obama’s actual long-form birth certificate, which “birther” activists have clamored for, or if it was simply a record that such a document exists. They are making a factual statement backed by the integrity of ABC News, and they are stating for the record their belief that long form birth documents not only exist but that Obama’s remains to be found. They aren’t saying that someone on one side or the other are making possibly specious claims about the existence of long form documents, they are stating as fact that long form documents exist. When they say: > [@](#): > > “Despite his assurance to end the controversy, the governor has yet to present the document.” They are stating this as fact. So while you are correct that ABC is reporting on what the two sides are saying, it is interjecting certain factual observations of their own. Therefore it isn’t accurate to say they’re only reporting what the two sides are telling them. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/284 "2011-02-14T10:08:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Of course they are reporting what the sides are saying. That’s what news organizations do. > > However, when they say something like this: > > They are quoting state government officials, and noting that despite what the officals say, they are yet to produce documentation to support their claims. They are making a factual statement backed by the integrity of ABC News. > > When they say: They are making a factual statement backed by the integrity of ABC News, and they are stating for the record their belief that long form birth documents not only exist but that Obama’s remains to be found. They aren’t saying that someone on one side or the other are making possibly specious claims about the existence of long form documents, they are stating as fact that long form documents exist. > > When they say: They are stating this as fact. > > So while you are correct that ABC is reporting on what the two sides are saying, it is interjecting certain factual observations of their own. Therefore it isn’t accurate to say they’re only reporting what the two sides are telling them. :rolleyes: The facts you are reporting do not contradict what I’m saying. And it should be obvious how that trick is pulled, I could say that it is a fact that we landed on the moon, but it is also a fact that moon hoaxers can say that we can not go now and produce the physical evidence of the lunar landers. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/285 "2011-02-14T10:22:00Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > :rolleyes: > > The facts you are reporting do not contradict what I’m saying. They contradict what you’re saying about their only reporting what each side says. And now I’ve finally gotten tired of this, so this will be my last post of the night. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/286 "2011-02-14T11:28:33Z")
…It’s that he’s so damned deluded and arrogant that he thinks he’s winning the fight. I bet when he runs away from someone he describes it as advancing in the other direction. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/287 "2011-02-14T12:24:51Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > The problem is that liberals don’t want to believe their beloved minority president could possibly be a criminal, a fraud, a usurper. No. The problem is that you are such a psychopartisan that you cannot even admit that your own heroes (Coulter et al) think that your cause is so weak and pathetic that the all it is good for is being a tool of liberals to make conservatives look especially nutty. Congratulations on being a tool. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/288 "2011-02-14T12:27:53Z")
> [@Doctor](#): > > Then why do you bother to post here? You are not going to win any friends with your vitrol. Nobody is going to “see the light” as it were. I have no dog in this fight, but I really can’t see any advantage to you posting in this fashion unless it is simply to stir shit up. That, in my opinion, is being a jerk. If you do so, people are going to be jerks right back. So, I am honestly curious, what do you get out of this? CoT reminds me a lot of the Libertarians who posted in USENET during the 90’s. These people seemed to be of the mind that the best way to covert people to their party was to insult, berate, and belittle people on the newsgroups. Somehow that didn’t seem to work very well. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/289 "2011-02-14T12:41:39Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Oh, and I forgot to add the new rules. From now on, when one of you stupid libtards misquote, partially quote out of context, mis-attribute or flat out lie about me concerning something you believe I said, quoted, cited, or claimed, I will ignore you until you correct your mistake. I know you people like to make up crazy shit in your head and pretend that someone else actually said it when in reality nobody else ever did. It’s part of the mental illness called liberalism. > > But it’s not my fault you were born defective and further damaged by your idiot parents and socialist school teachers. I have no time to constantly correct you. So from now on, when one of you does that, I will simply post something along the lines of “Stupid libtard, that is a lie/misquote/fallacy - now go read what I actually said and quote me correctly”. Until you do, I will not respond to your questions, demands, or requests. > > Class dismissed. Are you a “Birther” because he is black, because he is a Democrat, or both? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/290 "2011-02-14T12:47:46Z")
> [@margin](#): > > …It’s that he’s so damned deluded and arrogant that he thinks he’s winning the fight. I bet when he runs away from someone he describes it as advancing in the other direction. Almost all conspiracy nutters are supremely arrogant. Their only real attribute is their false sense of superiority. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/291 "2011-02-14T13:06:30Z")
Let’s assume for the sake of argument that Stanley Ann Dunham did give birth to Barack Obama in Kenya. Just for shits and giggles. If you’re imagining air travel in the early Sixties—especially to Kenya—was like it is today you’re a moron. Which I suspect is the truth, anyway, but what the hell. When did she fly there, at what stage of pregnancy, where did she give birth, who attended, how did they travel, and so on? We’re not talking 747s and all that. She didn’t have a passport, and then there’s the matter of her husband’s first marriage. She would have been massively pregnant-----did planes at the time even have bathrooms? And then on the way home, they would have been laden down with diapers, a baby, bags, packages, all that. How would they have even managed to call Hawaii to plant the birth announcement that all Birthers believe they did? When did transAtlantic phone service reach Kenya, anyway? My own grandmother and mother grew up right here in the US and my mother churned butter and used an outhouse before they had plumbing and electricity. If these dipshits believe this is the case, then let them prove it. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/292 "2011-02-14T13:07:08Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’d like to second this. It’s pretty clear that our views are diametrically opposed, but I’d always felt that your opinions, while steeped in hoary fantasies of an ideal yesteryear that never quite existed, at least came from a sincere place. Watching you willingly splash around in sewage with the likes of **C-of-T** , even under the guise of Just Asking Questions, is a really sad sight. Lump me in as well. I don’t agree with most his posts but up until now I at least respected his honesty in what he believed. I’m frankly a little surprised and saddened that he has resorted to [JAQ-ing off](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/JAQing_off). ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/293 "2011-02-14T13:28:39Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > You’re wrong. The birth certificate that Obama released is the same as my birth certificate. They’re the same thing. Holy crap, Obama stole **Lobohan** ’s birth certificate! So is that also how he got a 1890s Social Security number? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/294 "2011-02-14T13:33:24Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Lump me in as well. I don’t agree with most his posts but up until now I at least respected his honesty in what he believed. I’m frankly a little surprised and saddened that he has resorted to [JAQ-ing off](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/JAQing_off). Oh, That Longtime Poster has always shown a bit of racism. He’s filled with nostalgia for That Golden Age when non-whites (& women) knew their place & everything was right with the world. His New Friend has just made his beliefs a bit more obvous. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/295 "2011-02-14T14:14:03Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > …THEORY: So she travels back to Hawaii, swears out an affidavit that Obama was born in Hawaii, receives a COLB (which is worthless), the COLB generates an automatic announcement in the newspapers, and viola! Cover story! > > Small problem…she never could have dreamed that her son would one day run for president, and therefore open up a can of worms that until that time had no reason to be opened. Bigger problem. How did she have the “birth announcement” “auto-generated” to fit the date when she filed the false documents after she travels back to Hawaii. Did she travel back to Hawaii, swear out the affidavit and have it validated and “installed”, all on the same day? Are there court records of this affidavit? Where was it sworn, before whom? Where is this affidavit now? Was the affidavit itself, and all references to it, destroyed by agents of the Comintern? Have you any evidence to offer that there is such a procedure for altering birth records? Don’t such alterations require a court order? Who issued such an order, and where are the records of it being issued? There is no evidence at all of any such “affidavit”, is there? As to this alleged law you keep throwing around, I note your refusal to supply citations. Due, of course, to your efforts to preserve your, ah, dignity. Will you supply such citation to someone else, then, if not directly to me? Here’s what I found, though admittedly not involving such a clearly reliable, non-partisan source like _World Net Daily_: > **[In the United States, what is a Natural Born Citizen?](https://www.americaexplained.org/in-the-united-states-what-is-a-natural-born-citizen.htm)** > > A natural born citizen is someone who is considered a US citizen from birth. Unlike a naturalized citizen, a natural born citizen... > [@](#): > > …In situations where only one parent is a United States citizen, he or she must have lived in the United States for at least five years at some point before the child’s birth as a full American citizen, and at least two of these five years must have occurred after the parent’s 14th birthday… Note that it is not required that she live five years in the US after her 14th birthday, only “at some point”. So. then, she wasn’t in Hawii for two years after her 14th birthday? Where in the world, then, was Carmen Obamamamma? ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/296 "2011-02-14T14:16:35Z")
Jesus, I weep for our future. Although I am still cautiously optimistic that racist, ignorant, pathetic wastes of space like the sorry-ass trolls in this thread are a minority, that they exist at all is an embarrasement. I’m ashamed to think that we apparently went through the same school system. I guess we can rest easy knowing that his personality undoubtably acts as nature’s best form of _birth_ control. Pun intended. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/297 "2011-02-14T14:17:35Z")
My eyes glazed over a while ago, but has the Champ offered a theory as to how Anne Dunham managed to smuggle a newborn with no proof of citizenship past immigration officials in 1961? As I understand it, they’re trained to look out for that sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/298 "2011-02-14T14:35:20Z")
In 1961? By that time, the liberal corruption of America had proceeded to a point that no one even noticed a young white woman carrying a black baby. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/299 "2011-02-14T14:53:59Z")
Well, let’s see here. On the one hand we have the following: 1. A released copy of Obama’s birth certificate from the appropriate state authority 2. Affidavits from employees of the state authority and Hawaii’s Republican Governer, stating that a valid birth certificate for Obama exists 3. A record of dozens of federal court cases on this subject, all of which have been dismissed without merit, except for a few recently filed and presumably under review 4. Not a single shred of credible evidence that Ann Dunham was anywhere but Hawaii when her son was born 5. A general consensus among elected officials and most political pundits (including some of the most conservative) that there is no substance to this issue. Feel free to correct me if I’ve misstated the facts on any of these points. On the other hand, we have Some Guy on the Internet, without any known investigative credentials, and who has already demonstrated that he has no idea what a primary source is, saying all the above is false or wrong. The “Connecticut-issued Social Security Number for a guy born in 1890” is a new one on me, but I have to question how someone under such public scrutiny could possibly get a way with having a forged or false SS#, so I’ll need a lot more than some second-sourced article on World Net Daily to buy into that one. In any event, it has nothing to do with any citizenship issue. **Big Shiny Chromium Truth Machine** , you’ve been highly amusing, but except for the SS# thing you haven’t brought anything to the table that hasn’t been debunked many times over in dozens of threads on this subject. If you want to keep rehashing the same tired old points and insulting everyone who bothers to respond to your drivel, feel free; meanwhile we’ll continue to point and laugh at you. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/300 "2011-02-14T14:57:41Z")
I didn’t have the heart to read the entire thread so apologize if this has already been posted, but [this “fictional” story](http://www.salon.com/entertainment/comics/this_modern_world/2010/02/01/this_modern_world/story.jpg) explains the birth certificate mystery rather well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117.md?page=16)