# Would producing a birth certificate do any good? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 12, 2011, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117 "2011-02-12T09:56:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/321 "2011-02-14T19:08:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > It might be best not to make Canadians aware of their country’s status as an “outlying possession”, they can be rather touchy about stuff like that. I know, they’ve got their own government and currency and everything. It’s so _cute!_ ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/322 "2011-02-14T19:20:54Z")
Wait, what … Canada isn’t a _state_? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/323 "2011-02-14T19:47:37Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Wait, what … Canada isn’t a _state_? It’s a state of mind, dude. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/324 "2011-02-14T19:56:15Z")
It’s like a state! We even have a popular right-wing female politician with sex appeal and everything!Why, just last week Calgary’s city council decided to forgo scientific consultation and just vote 10-3 to pull fluoride from our drinking water. Apparently having my water supply brought up to 1950 standards without my being asked or without any scientific backing for doing so is a victory for those whose hold dear the right to choose to be stupid. If not for our exemplary manners the birthers and anti-vax idiots would be right at home here. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/325 "2011-02-14T20:06:24Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I have to say, I’ve lost some respect for you from this thread. I knew I disagreed with you a lot, but I never thought you were this much of an irrational wing nut. I’m disappointed. > [@Vinyl Turnip](#): > > I’d like to second this. It’s pretty clear that our views are diametrically opposed, but I’d always felt that your opinions, while steeped in hoary fantasies of an ideal yesteryear that never quite existed, at least came from a sincere place. Watching you willingly splash around in sewage with the likes of C-of-T, even under the guise of Just Asking Questions, is a really sad sight. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > I really want to like him (we both (IIRC) share a love for Steely Dan and (an unrequited one for) Lynne Russell)… > [@PlainJain](#): > > Lump me in as well. I don’t agree with most his posts but up until now I at least respected his honesty in what he believed. I’m frankly a little surprised and saddened that he has resorted to JAQ-ing off. Wow, who knew I was so well thought of here prior to now. 🙂 I thank you all for your erstwhile admiration. But, your sadness, such as it may be, is grossly misplaced. **Starvey** is not a birther, has never been a birther, and will never be a birther. And the statements he made and the basis for the questions he asked in this thread were no different than information contained in the ABC News article **China Guy** posted. And yet strangely enough, I’ve never heard anyone calling articles like that out as birtherism. And the reason is clear: it isn’t. And the funny thing is, **China Guy** posted it in an attempt to discredit the argument of birthers. > [@Bridgette Burke](#): > > Oh, That Longtime Poster has always shown a bit of racism. He’s filled with nostalgia for That Golden Age when non-whites (& women) knew their place & everything was right with the world. Oh, horse-fucking-shit! He’s nostalgic for an era (which basically is any time during the twentieth century and not limited to the fifties) when kids in this country were educated, when drugs and their associated crime wasn’t rife in every neighborhood, and when millions of kids weren’t being raised in single-parent homes and doomed either to lives of crime or a minimum wage lifestyle. I would say that I was sad to see you posting this dishonest meme, but I would be lying. You’re simply full of shit and grasping at straws in order to avoid having to admit the harmful consequences of your own way of thinking. But that doesn’t make me sad, and it doesn’t really make me angry. Or at least not any more, now that that this particular form of dishonesty has become the de facto defense for fucking up the country and therefore old hat. Mostly what is makes me feel is disgust and contempt, which coincidently is how I feel about what has happened to this country since people like you actually began to have some influence upon it. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/326 "2011-02-14T20:28:13Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Oh, horse-fucking-shit! He’s nostalgic for an era (which basically is any time during the twentieth century and not limited to the fifties) when kids in this country were educated, when drugs and their associated crime wasn’t rife in every neighborhood, and when millions of kids weren’t being raised in single-parent homes and doomed either to lives of crime or a minimum wage lifestyle. Yeah, because we all know kids from single parent homes just can’t make anything of themselves. Why some of them are even doomed to become the President of the USA! ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/327 "2011-02-14T20:36:57Z")
Haven’t we seen this screenplay before? Newbie comes in ranting batshit crazy wingnut conservative nonsense. \*\*SA \*\*chimes in with is own version of same. Newbie and \*\*SA \*\*get their asses handed to them over those uncooperative technicalities known as “facts”. Shortly (my bet was Tuesday, did anybody offer sooner? if not, I’m claiming the prize for “under”) newbie gets banned. Even before that, as soon as it is apparent which way the wind is blowing (category five hurricane, I believe), \*\*SA \*\*falls back on his “I was only playing devil’s advocate, I’m not really a racist sympathizing, batshit repeating, credulous moron!! I was just asking questions!” schtick. Ho hum. Look for the sequel, coming this spring to a message board near you. ---
**Author:** ![TravisFromOR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@TravisFromOR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TravisFromOR)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/328 "2011-02-14T20:39:22Z")
> [@Meyer6](#): > > Yeah, because we all know kids from single parent homes just can’t make anything of themselves. Why some of them are even doomed to become the President of the USA! Well, being President is not that good of a job. Nearly 10% of those holding the position have been murdered. Would you take a job like that? ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/329 "2011-02-14T20:43:46Z")
I’ve been observing\*\* SA\*\* for a long time & stand by every word I wrote. By the way–I think I’m his exact contemporary. So I’ve had “influence” precisely as long as he has. And I was raised in a single-parent home beginning in 1953. Because my father died in the service; flag draped coffin at the wake & all that. I’m neither a criminal nor a minimum wage worker. By the way, I’ve been wondering this about **SA**. Young men of our generation faced a huge test: the draft & possible service in Southeast Asia. I knew guys who joined eagerly & others who protested all the way to the Supreme Court. One went to Canada. My brother used his Surviving Son deferment–with our mother’s blessing. Most of the guys either furthered their education (& the education deferment) or got drafted & went. As a liberal hippie, I understood the protesters & honest avoiders; belonging to a military family, I understood those who served. The chicken hawks were the only ones worthy of my contempt. So, how did **Starving Artist** face this test of his young manhood? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/330 "2011-02-14T20:49:53Z")
> [@CannyDan](#): > > Haven’t we seen this screenplay before? Newbie comes in ranting batshit crazy wingnut conservative nonsense. \*\*SA \*\*chimes in with is own version of same. Newbie and \*\*SA \*\*get their asses handed to them over those uncooperative technicalities known as “facts”. Shortly (my bet was Tuesday, did anybody offer sooner? if not, I’m claiming the prize for “under”) newbie gets banned. Even before that, as soon as it is apparent which way the wind is blowing (category five hurricane, I believe), \*\*SA \*\*falls back on his “I was only playing devil’s advocate, I’m not really a racist sympathizing, batshit repeating, credulous moron!! I was just asking questions!” schtick. > > Ho hum. > > Look for the sequel, coming this spring to a message board near you. I was going to post exactly this, word for word. But the message board ate it, and I have to leave now to run errands but will post it tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/331 "2011-02-14T20:53:57Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I was going to post exactly this, word for word. But the message board ate it, and I have to leave now to run errands but will post it tomorrow. 😃 As soon as you can find a cite that proves the exact opposite of your thesis, right? ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/332 "2011-02-14T21:14:58Z")
> [@TravisFromOR](#): > > Well, being President is not that good of a job. Nearly 10% of those holding the position have been murdered. Would you take a job like that? Well, that is a good point - it is a dangerous proposition! But a dangerous job is not exactly the same as a life of crime (although I suppose you could consider politics a life of crime in and of itself). ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/333 "2011-02-14T21:17:39Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Wow, who knew I was so well thought of here prior to now. If it helps at all, you’ve always been a lying sack of shit in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/334 "2011-02-14T21:26:04Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > If it helps at all, you’ve always been a lying sack of shit in my book. +1000, as the kids say these days. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/335 "2011-02-14T21:30:12Z")
I have to admit SA, I’m not a fan, but I would piss on you if you were on fire. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/336 "2011-02-14T21:33:53Z")
So, who among us would piss on him if he was _not_ on fire? _Or should I be asking ‘who else’?_ ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/337 "2011-02-14T21:58:01Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > But, your sadness, such as it may be, is grossly misplaced. **Starvey** is not a birther, has never been a birther, and will never be a birther. And the statements he made and the basis for the questions he asked in this thread were no different than information contained in the ABC News article **China Guy** posted. And yet strangely enough, I’ve never heard anyone calling articles like that out as birtherism. And the reason is clear: it isn’t. > > And the funny thing is, **China Guy** posted it in an attempt to discredit the argument of birthers. And I have been telling you several times that in reality the birther side does come up worse in the article once one applies context to it, but the reason why many do think that you are a lying sack of crap (I’m not saying that, I just see the reactions here) is that you usually never can see how the cites you produce or notice (or vomit) actually do not help you, and then people wonder why you are so obtuse. So, to check again: > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > They contradict what you’re saying about their only reporting what each side says. > > And now I’ve finally gotten tired of this, so this will be my last post of the night. Meh, I also did point early that the **facts were also there for the other side** , the report attempts to be a wash for all parties, however the problem once again is that a huge bit of context was missing and the placement of the facts clearly is geared to mislead a little, the most glaring example is reporting the fact that the document was not produced, **when other reports explained already how political the investigation was and why the document was not produced**. That tells me that ABC just bended like a pretzel to be fair to the side with the shrinking support, and that was one of my early points; it would be like if ABC had reported that it was a fact that one clearly explained issue from the Moon Hoaxers was accurate but missed to explain that properly to the readers. For example, there are very good explanations why there are no stars on the moon pictures taken from the surface, on most of them that is, it turns out that in a few images stars can be seen trough the extreme glare, so some Hoaxer proponents reported how right they were all along… :rolleyes: No, the fact still remains that we landed on the moon in 1969, Obama was born in the USA. And there are good reasons to humiliate bad reporting and people who avoid dealing with the fact that bad reporting does happen. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/338 "2011-02-14T22:51:49Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > [nitpick]I’m not sure this is correct. Particularly for one-citizen (and minor, I think) parents, I’m pretty sure there is a residency requirement in addition to the citizenship of the parent. > > Quick Wiki cite: > [URL=“[Birthright citizenship in the United States - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_States#Current_U.S._law)”] > > This has no bearing on the birther nonsense, just a possible nitpick. Corrections to this post are welcome. Even if, hypothetically, Ann Dunham gave birth to Obama in Kenya, she’d lived her whole life in the US, so according to the wikicite in your post, he’d be a US citizen. That law, if accurate, would only be relevant if Ann Dunham were a naturalized citizen or had lived virtually her whole life outside the US. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/339 "2011-02-14T22:51:57Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > **Starvey** is not a birther, has never been a birther, and will never be a birther. Well, at the very least you are a birther apologist. You really can’t see why people think you are a birther? All from this thread: > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So the long form has been found and verified by trustworthy observers? In answer to Dio’s question “Are you willing to say straight out that birthers are fucking morons?” > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Prove to me that long form birth records either don’t exist or didn’t exist at the time of Obama’s birth, or that if they did exist his is located where it’s supposed to be and has been seen and verified by reputable, neutral observers since the time he entered the race for president. As **CoT** said, the word of a hospital administrator should not be considered sufficient, assuming that’s where the verification comes from. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It does seem very odd to me that the issue is shrouded in so much mystery. I do recall reading once that the hospital was refusing to release the long form because that is their policy and they don’t release them for anyone. I would think that the president of the United States, if he were so inclined, would easily have enough clout to override this hospital’s ‘policy’ practices where his own records are concerned. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The fact that there is so much out of the ordinary mystery surrounding his birth and the primary birth record is what is causing all the uproar. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s the stubborn and apparently baseless refusal to cough up images of the absolute and entire original document for public scrutiny that is at the root of the problem, and people are not morons for wondering about it. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’d like to see copies of it made publicly available. And my acceptance of it would depend upon whatever is determined by scrutiny of it. You expect us to believe that that’s all ‘devil’s advocate’? You clearly believe that Obama’s personal history is ‘shrouded in mystery’ just because he doesn’t have the tidy, lily-white history of your family, where generations were delivered in the same hospital and everyone knew the delivering doctor personally, like a lovely Norman Rockwell painting. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/340 "2011-02-14T22:59:10Z")
To add to the above, not to be indelicate, but think about how many children during the Vietnam War were fathered by 18 and 19-year-old Americans. Did any of those children have to request citizenship or be “naturalized”? No, so long as their fathers were American citizens, so were they. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117.md?page=18)