# Would producing a birth certificate do any good? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 12, 2011, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117 "2011-02-12T09:56:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/61 "2011-02-13T05:36:24Z")
**Hey, asshole!** Say Obama’s a Kenyan, born, raised, and madrassa’d. Say he’s the biggest, blackest (oops!), most Islamic fucking Islamist to come down the pike since Malcolm X was murdered by the Nation of Islam. Say he’s not legitimately an American and, therefore, not legitimately the President. I have one question for you: **So the fuck what?** We, the People, have Decided, and Obama is President. You lose. I’ll repeat that for the thinking impaired: **NOBODY CARES. YOU LOSE.** That felt good. I’ll do it again: **YOUR OPINION IS IRRELEVANT. NO-BO-DY CARES. YOU LOSE.** Finally, do you know what the difference between you and me is? I’m a shining wit. You’re a whining shit. Now go be offended somewhere like a good little Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/62 "2011-02-13T05:40:13Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Now go be offended somewhere like a good little Republican. He’s not a Republican. \*\*Champion-of-Truth \*\*is a conservative. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/63 "2011-02-13T05:40:47Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Good lord, the libtards are gonna freak when they realize we’re not clones of one another! 😉 That has been my point for several posts already, but you tried to convince others that your positions are being taken seriously by people who are not liberals. Now what I see here and in other threads is a real freak-out by you when others can see how misleading you are. Again, the whole truth is that you are a zombie, you lost your life bet already regarding Obama being taken to task for this issue. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/64 "2011-02-13T05:41:38Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > I have posted that OBAMA’S RELATIVES have said he was born in Kenya. No they haven’t. This is a birther falsehood. > [@](#): > > Some of his relatives claim they were there when he was born in Kenya No they haven’t. You are misnformed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/65 "2011-02-13T05:50:06Z")
For the edification of the unedifiable: [No, Obama’s grandmother didn’t say he was born in Kenya](http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2009/07/23/liddy) ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/66 "2011-02-13T05:59:49Z")
Good lord, the libtards are gonna freak when they realize we’re not clones of one another! 😉 [/QUOTE] Yeah, I get that from time to time. It’s funny, about the only time the board’s other conservative posters seem to be thought correct is when they post something in disagreement with what I’ve said. It’s “ **Sam Stone/Shodan/Bricker/Rand Rover** disagreed when they said such-and-so,” as though that was all the proof needed to demonstrate that I was unquestionably wrong. It never seems to occur to anyone around here that we all have our own opinons on the issues, and just because one conservative thinks one way it doesn’t necessarily follow that all the others do too. Another difference is that as conservatives and being believers in individual responsibility, you don’t find the board’s conservatives rushing to each other’s defense nor ganging up on anyone. With regard to Obama, I think it would have to be proven that he knew for certain that he wasn’t born in the U.S. in order to make him criminally liable, and since no one remembers their birth, let alone where it occurred, I think it would be very difficult to prove fraudulent intent. > [@Joebuck20](#): > > Just curious, how many people have handy a copy of their “long form” birth certificate? The copy I have and that I’ve used all my life to get a driver’s license, passport, etc. looks a lot like the one Obama made public (albeit from a Midwestern state and not Hawaii). It’s an official copy printed out on fancy stationary with the county seal embossed in the corner, and lists my birthdate, birth place and parents’ names, but no other information save for the signature of the county health commissioner. The form you’re talking about is indeed intended to confirm your identity for legal purposes, but in Hawaii at least, it’s supposedly based upon and backed up by the long form birth record which the state retains. I think the problem that so-called “birthers” are having is that the long form has inexplicably disappeared from Hawaii’s archives. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/67 "2011-02-13T06:03:10Z")
Gigobuster wrote: > [@](#): > > And that makes you a birther also, sorry to disappoint you, but the term also applies to the ones that insist on that \*\*useless \*\*angle. I do not acknowledge the term, as it is a dismissive, derogatory term used by people only to disparage another. > [@](#): > > What I do know is that World Nut Daily forgot to report this to you: > > [http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20…05/birther\_faq](http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/08/05/birther_faq) Been down that road, long ago. I have to admit, there are questions there. Serious constitutional questions. For example, many people question the idea that merely being born on American soil makes one a natural born citizen. The founding fathers surely did not intend that, as they wrote in the 14th Amendment: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.” That line “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” is the problem. Two Mexican citizens illegally cross over the border, have a baby on American soil. Is he American? I say no. He is born to two parents of Mexican citizenship and is subject to the jurisdiction of Mexico, not America. Therefore, he is not a natural born citizen. Many Constitutional scholars agree. It’s being debated in many circles. This also applies to ambassadors and officials traveling from other countries…their children, if born here, are not considered natural born Americans. That’s the law. So there are issues to work out. I know people hate it, but I’ll cite it anyway: > **[Home 2024 \* WorldNetDaily](https://www.wnd.com/?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=166569)** > > A Free Press For A Free People Since 1997 > [@](#): > > "In 1866, John A. Bingham, chief framer of the 14th Amendment, which granted citizenship to the freed slaves, wrote as follows: “Every human being born within the United States _of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty_ (emphasis added) is, in the language of the Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” Also, consider this: > **[Natural Born Citizen - A Place to Ask Questions and Get the Right Answers](http://puzo1.blogspot.com/)** > > A blog to discuss the U.S. Constitution Article II, Section 1, "natural born Citizen" presidential eligibility clause. As for his relatives’ claims, here is a lot more info, and actual audio tape of the interview: > **[Home 2024 \* WorldNetDaily](https://www.wnd.com/?pageId=107524)** > > A Free Press For A Free People Since 1997 So there is some confusion around the issue. There are others who claim to have witnessed his birth there. See, that’s the issue. There has never been so much confusion and obfuscation over a president’s actual birth. So what I feel is that this is an important enough issue to justify some minimal level of proper investigation and vetting. I mean, we are talking about the possibility of an ineligible man usurping the office in direct contradiction of the law as written in the supreme law of the land, the US Constitution. That to me is more important than whether liberals or conservatives or birthers or doubters are right. None of that is important, and nobody is asking for anything outrageous or impossible. I for one just want to see Obama’s records released. He has been caught in so many lies in his books and statements that there is a volcanic cloud of smoke, and that means there’s fire. Something fishy is going on. Hell, maybe he was natural born and he’s simply Muslim or a bastard child or something else he wants to hide. But he is hiding SOMETHING. Nobody spends millions of dollars to hide a $10 birth certificate and other past records unless they are hiding something. It’s that simple. The controversy is only growing, and it’s becoming a serious contention point between people. Polls show 58% of Americans have reservations about Obama’s birth and eligibility. This thing is not going away. States are introducing bills to force a candidate to prove his eligibility. Why do you consider it too much to ask that we investigate this and properly vet him? I seem to remember liberals going apeshit about McCain being born in the Panama Canal and saying he wasn’t eligible and holding congressional hearings. Why not the same treatment for Obama? What is everyone so afraid of finding out? Is it fear of the rioting that will result should be turn out to be ineligible after all? What is it? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/68 "2011-02-13T06:03:20Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I think the problem that so-called “birthers” are having is that the long form has inexplicably disappeared from Hawaii’s archives. No, it hasn’t. It’s been seen and verified. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/69 "2011-02-13T06:06:19Z")
That’s why I said I “thought” that was the problem. As I said upthread, I’m not invested in the issue so I’m not up to date on its status. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/70 "2011-02-13T06:09:01Z")
Just to be clear, there is ZERO doubt about where Barack Obama was born, There are no unanswered questions, no mystery, nothing left to determine. There is no controversy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/71 "2011-02-13T06:10:06Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > That’s why I said I “thought” that was the problem. As I said upthread, I’m not invested in the issue so I’m not up to date on its status. Are you willing to say straight out that birthers are fucking morons? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/72 "2011-02-13T06:10:39Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Just to be clear, there is ZERO doubt about where Barack Obama was born, There are no unanswered questions, no mystery, nothing left to determine. There is no controversy. So the long form has been found and verified by trustworthy observers? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/73 "2011-02-13T06:12:26Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Are you willing to say straight out that birthers are fucking morons? No. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/74 "2011-02-13T06:15:19Z")
Some retarded douchebag named Derleth wrote: > [@](#): > > **Hey, asshole!** > > Say Obama’s a Kenyan, born, raised, and madrassa’d. > > Say he’s the biggest, blackest (oops!), most Islamic fucking Islamist to come down the pike since Malcolm X was murdered by the Nation of Islam. > > Say he’s not legitimately an American and, therefore, not legitimately the President. > > I have one question for you: > > **So the fuck what?** > > We, the People, have Decided, and Obama is President. You lose. > > I’ll repeat that for the thinking impaired: > > **NOBODY CARES. YOU LOSE.** > > That felt good. I’ll do it again: > > **YOUR OPINION IS IRRELEVANT. NO-BO-DY CARES. YOU LOSE.** > > Finally, do you know what the difference between you and me is? > > I’m a shining wit. You’re a whining shit. > > Now go be offended somewhere like a good little Republican. Your entire post showcases not only your supreme ignorance and stupidity, but a total lack of understanding of the United States, the Constitution, and civic duty. You are, in short, a worthless piece of shit. First, it doesn’t matter if he was elected even if he won 100% of the vote. That does not and cannot supersede Constitutional law, you dimwit fucktard. Maybe you should brush up on American law a bit, huh? Second, it damn well does matter, because we are talking about serious constitutional issues. If we can ignore the Constitutional requirements for president today, then perhaps tomorrow it will be decided that free speech will be ignored. Although some would argue that such a thing would shut up an obnoxious, stupid, ignorant douchebag such as yourself, and thus be a wonderful event, it’s still not a good thing. Finally, I love how easy it is to piss off worthless piece of shit liberals like you. It’s fun watching you rant and foam at the mouth. Now go take a valium and shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/75 "2011-02-13T06:15:51Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So the long form has been found and verified by trustworthy observers? It was never lost. [http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born\_in\_the\_usa.html](http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html) > [@](#): > > The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu. > > The Associated Press quoted Chiyome Fukino as saying that both she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama’s original birth certificate. > > \ > > Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures." Re: the so-called ‘short-form’ certificate: > [@](#): > > FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it’s stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs. Since then, other Hawaii officials (including, IIRC, the governor) have seen and verified the original birth certificate. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/76 "2011-02-13T06:16:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So the long form has been found and verified by trustworthy observers? Try reading for comprehension. But to clarify, what he should have written was, “Just to be clear, _among the sane_ there is ZERO doubt about where Barack Obama was born, There are no unanswered questions, no mystery, nothing left to determine. There is no controversy.” ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/77 "2011-02-13T06:17:54Z")
Diogenes the Un-cynic wrote: > [@](#): > > Just to be clear, there is ZERO doubt about where Barack Obama was born, There are no unanswered questions, no mystery, nothing left to determine. There is no controversy. Really? Then just show me Obama’s original long form birth certificate, his hospital admissions forms and medical records, his passport records, his financial aid records, his Harvard Law review papers, his school records, his adoption papers, his legal documents changing his name from Barry Soetoro to Barack Obama, etc, etc. Just show me where those were posted and I’ll shut the fuck up. Otherwise, you shut the fuck up. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/78 "2011-02-13T06:19:25Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Really? Then just show me Obama’s original long form birth certificate, his hospital admissions forms and medical records, his passport records, his financial aid records, his Harvard Law review papers, his school records, his adoption papers, his legal documents changing his name from Barry Soetoro to Barack Obama, etc, etc. Just show me where those were posted and I’ll shut the fuck up. Otherwise, you shut the fuck up. Are _you_ willing to say straight out that birthers are fucking morons? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/79 "2011-02-13T06:19:57Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Really? Then just show me Obama’s original long form birth certificate, blatherblatherblather… You’ve obviously never held a security clearance. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/80 "2011-02-13T06:20:59Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So the long form has been found and verified by trustworthy observers? There is no such thing as a “long form.” This is birther mythology. The original, archived birth certificate has been found and verified by the state of Hawaii and it’s (then Republican) Governor, yes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117.md?page=5)