# Would producing a birth certificate do any good? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 12, 2011, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117 "2011-02-12T09:56:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/81 "2011-02-13T06:22:00Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No. Then you have no credibility about anything else you ever say. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/82 "2011-02-13T06:24:08Z")
Perhaps you should try reading for comprehension. Has it not been apparent from my posts that, given that I haven’t been following the issue, I’m unaware of what **Dio** appears to know which shows that there is ZERO doubt as to where Obama was born? Or do you expect me to simply take your word for it? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/83 "2011-02-13T06:24:43Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Diogenes the Un-cynic wrote: > > Really? Then just show me Obama’s original long form birth certificate Hey, stupid, crazy fuck, you can view his birth certificate online. Hospital records are a made up, fake criterion. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/84 "2011-02-13T06:24:44Z")
Starving Artist wrote: > [@](#): > > I think the problem that so-called “birthers” are having is that the long form has inexplicably disappeared from Hawaii’s archives. Actually, I think it’s more than that. It’s the fact that they expect us (and by “us” I do not mean “birthers” since I am not one) to believe politicians based on their claims, without evidence to back them, when politicians have been proven over the years to be compulsive liars. And that includes the politicians running the Hawaiian Dept. of Health. Bottom line, if I went to the DMV to get a brand new drivers license (say back when I was 16) and I said to them… “Oh, yeah, I have a birth certificate. I can’t show you it, but the director of the hospital I was born in SWEARS it was there. Cross her heart and hope to die.” …they would laugh at me and throw me out on my ass. So all I expect from Obama is the same transparency I’m expected to show to get a drivers license. And considering all the other issues around his past, I think it brings up enough confusion, contradiction, and controversy to demand clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/85 "2011-02-13T06:29:00Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > his Harvard Law review papers He was an editor. He didn’t write articles. You think he wasn’t really the President of the Harvard Law Review? Harvard made it up? Fuck, you’re fucking stupid. > [@](#): > > his school records What do his school records have to do with anything, and what other candidate releases them? > [@](#): > > [, his adoption papers He was never adopted, moron. > [@](#): > > his legal documents changing his name from Barry Soetoro to Barack Obama He was never named Barry Soetero, stupid fuck. I’m about half convinced you’re just doing a parody of birther imbeciles, and don’t really believe any of this. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/86 "2011-02-13T06:30:59Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Perhaps you should try reading for comprehension. Has it not been apparent from my posts that, given that I haven’t been following the issue, I’m unaware of what **Dio** appears to know which shows that there is ZERO doubt as to where Obama was born? Well now you know. If you’re aware of evidence to the contrary. let’s see it. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/87 "2011-02-13T06:32:02Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Then you have no credibility about anything else you ever say. Hey, **Dio** , the board is ostensibly about fighting ignorance. And since we are all ignorant of far more than we’ll ever know, how can anyone have credibility if that is your standard? Tell ya what, here’s your chance to fight some ignorance. Prove to me that long form birth records either don’t exist or didn’t exist at the time of Obama’s birth, or that if they did exist his is located where it’s supposed to be and has been seen and verified by reputable, neutral observers since the time he entered the race for president. As **CoT** said, the word of a hospital administrator should not be considered sufficient, assuming that’s where the verification comes from. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/88 "2011-02-13T06:32:04Z")
Starving Artist wrote: > [@](#): > > With regard to Obama, I think it would have to be proven that he knew for certain that he wasn’t born in the U.S. in order to make him criminally liable, and since no one remembers their birth, let alone where it occurred, I think it would be very difficult to prove fraudulent intent. That is a good point. However, I would argue that while none of us remember our actual birth, most of us have long form birth certificates, can name the doctor who delivered us (of course, most of us would probably have to look that up) and the hospital at which we were born. I, for example, have never had any confusion over which hospital I was born in, unlike the Obama narrative where there are two hospitals cited in Hawaii and others claiming he was born in Kenya. No one has any doubt where I was born (now there’s an opening for the fucktards here - I bet that generates 200 stupid fucktard replies!) and there is no confusion over the issue. Likewise, I do not have a Social Security number issued to someone who was born in 1890 and registered to a state in which I never lived or worked. So to me, there is a lot more to question other than the birth record. That’s another reason I do not accept the slur of “birther”. There are a lot more problematic issues surrounding Obama than just his birth certificate. And since Obama claims to be a constitutional scholar, I think he would know whether he was eligible. So I think there are strong grounds to hold him criminally liable. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/89 "2011-02-13T06:36:52Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Hey, **Dio** , the board is ostensibly about fighting ignorance. And since we are all ignorant of far more than we’ll ever know, how can anyone have credibility if that is your standard? We are not ignorant about where Barack Obama was born. This is established fact. Showing ignorance of that casts doubt on your credibility about evertthing else. It’s like saying you’re not sure if the holocaust happened, or thinking maybe GWB really did have something to do with 9/11. > [@](#): > > Tell ya what, here’s your chance to fight some ignorance. Prove to me that long form birth records either don’t exist or didn’t exist at the time of Obama’s birth Firts you’ll have to define what a "long form birth certificate is. I don’t have to disprove the existence of every fantasy object you dream up. That’s asinine. > [@](#): > > or that if they did exist his is located where it’s supposed to be and has been seen and verified by reputable, neutral observers since the time he entered the race for president. That cite has already been provided a few posts up. Pay attention. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/90 "2011-02-13T06:36:53Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > No. Why not? Do you think truthers and Holocaust deniers are morons? If yes to the other two, what’s the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/91 "2011-02-13T06:37:31Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > is located where it’s supposed to be and has been seen and verified by reputable, neutral observers since the time he entered the race for president. I’ve already done that. See post 75. Where it’s supposed to be? Check. Verified by reputable, neutral observers? Check. > [@](#): > > The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: “your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records.” Does anyone really need to know how much he weighed when he was born, and his parents’ hometowns? 'Cause that’s about all the extra information you’ll get from the original – which I reiterate, has been seen and verified by reputable, neutral observers. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/92 "2011-02-13T06:37:31Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Really? Then just show me Obama’s original long form birth certificate, his hospital admissions forms and medical records, his passport records, his financial aid records, his Harvard Law review papers, his school records, his adoption papers, his legal documents changing his name from Barry Soetoro to Barack Obama, etc, etc. Just show me where those were posted and I’ll shut the fuck up. Otherwise, you shut the fuck up. I thought that your point was that the poor relatives in Kenya were being ignored in their claims. Unless, that is, you are the birther; that was easy to figure out. 🙂 As it is easy to figure out that most of the documents you mention are not related to this issue and some would confirm what you are claiming (his legal documents changing his name from Barry Soetoro to Barack Obama) so, clearly it is lie that you would shut up if the papers (specially that paper) would be produced. > **[Was Barack Obama a Foreign College Student?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-foreign-student/)** > > Recently released records do not document that Barack Obama received college financial aid in the U.S. as a 'foreign student from Indonesia.' > [@](#): > > After her divorce from her first husband, Barack Obama’s mother married an Indonesian student named Lolo Soetoro who was attending college in Hawaii; in 1967 the family moved to Indonesia, where Barack attended elementary school in Jakarta until 1971, when he returned to Hawaii to live with his maternal grandparents. Much has been made of the above-displayed registration from St. Francis of Assisi School in Jakarta, which ostensibly shows Barack Obama’s stepfather having listed his stepson’s nationality as “Indonesian” (thereby supposedly indicating that Barack Obama relinquished his U.S. citizenship at some point). > > However, Lolo Soetoro’s putatively listing his stepson’s nationality as Indonesian on a school registration form does not in itself demonstrate that Barack Obama was officially regarded as an Indonesian citizen by the government of that country. In any case it’s a moot point, **since the same form shows that Barack Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, thereby making him a U.S. citizen**. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/93 "2011-02-13T06:39:24Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > most of us have long form birth certificates Cite? > [@](#): > > can name the doctor who delivered us (of course, most of us would probably have to look that up) and the hospital at which we were born. I can’t name either one of those things. I doubt that most people know the name of the doctor that delivered them. > [@](#): > > [I, for example, have never had any confusion over which hospital I was born in, unlike the Obama narrative where there are two hospitals cited in Hawaii No, there is only one hospital. No confusion. > [@](#): > > and others claiming he was born in Kenya. No there aren’t. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/94 "2011-02-13T06:40:55Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > There are a lot more problematic issues surrounding Obama than just his birth certificate. What is problematic about his birth certificate? ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/95 "2011-02-13T06:48:46Z")
**Champion-of-Truth** is a fucking moron. By definition, Obama’s birth certificate would have been the only problematic issue _the day Obama was born_. Logic, dumbass. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/96 "2011-02-13T06:51:20Z")
It does seem very odd to me that the issue is shrouded in so much mystery. I do recall reading once that the hospital was refusing to release the long form because that is their policy and they don’t release them for anyone. I would think that the president of the United States, if he were so inclined, would easily have enough clout to override this hospital’s ‘policy’ practices where his own records are concerned. And I didn’t “dream up” the long form. It was in play long before I ever heard about it. > [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > Does anyone really need to know how much he weighed when he was born, and his parents’ hometowns? 'Cause that’s about all the extra information you’ll get from the original – which I reiterate, has been seen and verified by reputable, neutral observers. Yes, isn’t it obvious from the brouhaha that people need to know that information, if for no other reason than to put to rest questions of its existence? And I’m sorry, the cite you posted, plus your own words immediately above, show that there’s another document that is supposed to exist upon which the document you referenced is drawn. The question isn’t “Does Obama have some some birth record sufficient to vote or get a passport?”, it’s “Does the original document upon which that document is based exist as it’s supposed to, and if so why can’t anyone get a look at it?” ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/97 "2011-02-13T06:54:34Z")
Diogenes, it’s hard to comprehend the level of your stupidity, it really is. You wrote: > [@](#): > > He was an editor. He didn’t write articles. He wrote plenty of papers at Harvard. Where are they? How about his thesis paper? > [@](#): > > You think he wasn’t really the President of the Harvard Law Review? Harvard made it up? Fuck, you’re fucking stupid No, you’re a typical liberal fucktard who creates strawman arguments in his mind. I never said nor implied that he wasn’t really part of the Harvard Law Review. I simply said his records at the time have been sealed. Really, do you libtards have reading comprehension problems, problems with the English language, or just literacy problems? > [@](#): > > What do his school records have to do with anything, and what other candidate releases them? For one thing, his school records from Indonesia indicate he was a Muslim citizen in Indonesia. Plus there are other pieces of information they can reveal. And he’s the only president who’s hidden them. > [@](#): > > He was never adopted, moron. Are you truly that stupid, you moron? Here is a quote from his wife Michelle Obama: > [@](#): > > “African Press International is supposed to support Africans and African-American view,” she reportedly said. “It is strange that API has chosen to support the racists against my husband. **There is no shame in being adopted by a stepfather**. All dirt has been thrown onto my husband’s face and yet he loves this country. My husband and I know that there is no law that will stop him from becoming the president, just because some American white racists are bringing up the issue of **my husband’s adoption by his stepfather**. The important thing here is where my husband’s heart is at the moment. I can tell the American people that my husband loves this country and his adoption never changed his love for this country. He was born in Hawaii, yes, and that gives him all the right to be an American citizen even though **he was adopted by a foreigner**.” Furthermore, he was registered under the name Barry Soetoro in Indonesia when he went to school there, which backs up what his wife says…that he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro. It’s unclear whether he was legally adopted, but he did take the name of his stepfather when he attended school, which indicates he did. Here’s a link: > **[Home 2024 \* WorldNetDaily](https://www.wnd.com/?pageId=72656)** > > A Free Press For A Free People Since 1997 > [@](#): > > He was never named Barry Soetero, stupid fuck. I’m about half convinced you’re just doing a parody of birther imbeciles, and don’t really believe any of this. See my info posted above. And I’m convinced that the best part of you ran down your mother’s ass crack and ended up a brown stain on the carpet. Why are so such an ignorant, stupid fuck? ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/98 "2011-02-13T06:56:36Z")
Johnny LA wrote: > [@](#): > > I’ve already done that. See post 75. > > Where it’s supposed to be? Check. > Verified by reputable, neutral observers? Check. More typical libtard lies. They examined a COLB, but NOT THE ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE. Go look at the picture posted at the Factcheckorg website, you imbecile! It’s a picture of a COLB, not a longform birth certificate! ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/99 "2011-02-13T06:58:17Z")
Try paying attention, Kozmik, instead of asking stupid questions that have already been answered. I’m not getting paid to babysit your dumb ass. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2011, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117/100 "2011-02-13T06:59:49Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And I’m sorry, the cite you posted, plus your own words immediately above, show that there’s another document that is supposed to exist upon which the document you referenced is drawn. The question isn’t “Does Obama have some some birth record sufficient to vote or get a passport?”, it’s “Does the original document upon which that document is based exist as it’s supposed to, and if so why can’t anyone get a look at it?” I’ll type this slowly so that you might understand: The original document does exist. People have looked at it. Who? The people whose job it is to verify these kinds of documents. You don’t get to look at them because you do not have Need To Know, and it is contrary to Hawaii state law to release them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-producing-a-birth-certificate-do-any-good/571117.md?page=6)