# Would (Some) Muslims Consider Barack Obama a Muslim? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 9, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280 "2011-05-09T15:20:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/1 "2011-05-09T15:20:48Z")
I recall hearing somewhere (possibly here on the Dope) that some (or all) Muslims consider the child of a Muslim man to be a Muslim, regardless of the child’s own faith and practices. What’s the Straight Dope on this one? Is this a widely-held conviction, something believed by only a subset of Muslims, or complete fringe-loony baloney? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/2 "2011-05-09T15:26:30Z")
Well, a Muslim, in a nutshell, is one who submits to Allah according to the teachings of the Islamic religion, right? Last time I checked, Obama doesn’t do this. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/3 "2011-05-09T15:37:38Z")
If you want an almost unrelated morsel of truth in this, there are countries (I’m thinking of Malaysia as one example) where the parent can decide the religion of the child. The child would have to make an explicit conversion away from Islam. This is certainly not without controversy, and probably has more to do with the difficulties involving religion and government in general as it has to do with Islam specifically. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/4 "2011-05-09T16:28:46Z")
Middle Eastern Muslims generally consider that children of a Muslim father are Muslim. I do not know if this is a Muslim tradition, or more rooted in older traditions of the Middle East. I also don’t know if it extends to other Muslim cultures, such as Malaysia. Obama’s grandfather converted to Islam from Catholicism, so Obama’s father would probably have been considered to be a Muslim by conservative Muslims, but perhaps not by all Muslims. Those same Muslims would consider Obama to have been born Muslim, though based on his religious practices today I would suppose they would consider him an apostate, which is punishable by death in Saudi Arabia. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/5 "2011-05-10T09:48:02Z")
IIRC, Obama Sr. himself was a lapsed Muslim and identified as atheist/agnostic when Obama II was born. As an “apostate” himself, would that have any effect on his ability to transmit Muslim-ness to his son? ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/6 "2011-05-10T15:17:53Z")
Anyone can consider Barack Obama a Muslim, as we know all too well, for whatever reason they want. That doesn’t make him one. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/7 "2011-05-10T15:27:21Z")
No, a person must make the declaration of faith to be a Muslim. Some fellow at my dining table makes this case all the time. I accuse him of turning his back on baptism as a central guidepost in Christianity and that usually shuts him up. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/8 "2011-05-10T15:47:44Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > No, a person must make the declaration of faith to be a Muslim. Some fellow at my dining table makes this case all the time. I accuse him of turning his back on baptism as a central guidepost in Christianity and that usually shuts him up. Can that “person” be a child? Obama did, as a child, attend Mosque from time to time with his step-father in Indonesia. It’s possible he said that magic words in the mosque, and if so, does that count? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/9 "2011-05-10T15:58:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can that “person” be a child? Obama did, as a child, attend Mosque from time to time with his step-father in Indonesia. It’s possible he said that magic words in the mosque, and if so, does that count? Did you miss what **Paul in Qatar** wrote about baptism? [ > [@](#): > > Obama was baptized at the Trinity United Church of Christ in 1988 and was an active member there for two decades.[292] Obama resigned from Trinity during the Presidential campaign after controversial statements made by Rev. Jeremiah Wright[293] After a prolonged effort to find a church to attend regularly in Washington, Obama announced in June 2009 that his primary place of worship would be the Evergreen Chapel at Camp David.[294] ]([Barack Obama - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#Religious_views)) Christianity is not transmitted parent-to-child, but by rituals each Christian undergoes: most typically baptism, as **Paul** points out. That would supersede any “magic words” in a mosque, in the view of most Christians. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/10 "2011-05-10T16:08:09Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Did you miss what **Paul in Qatar** wrote about baptism? > > [URL=“[Barack Obama - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#Religious_views)”] > > Christianity is not transmitted parent-to-child, but by rituals each Christian undergoes: most typically baptism, as **Paul** points out. That would supersede any “magic words” in a mosque, in the view of most Christians. Emphasis added. Did you even read the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/11 "2011-05-10T16:11:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Emphasis added. Did you even read the OP? Yes, I did. I also read the post by **Paul** which you replied to. He wrote [QUOTE=paul in qatar] No, a person must make the declaration of faith to be a Muslim. Some fellow at my dining table makes this case all the time. I accuse him of turning his back on baptism as a central guidepost in Christianity and that usually shuts him up. [/QUOTE] to which you replied > [@](#): > > Can that “person” be a child? Obama did, as a child, attend Mosque from time to time with his step-father in Indonesia. It’s possible he said that magic words in the mosque, and if so, does that count? In your post, you ignored Paul’s point about the centrality of baptism to Xtianity and the inconsistency of being both Xtian and Muslim. Moreover, we don’t know that Obama ever made a confession of faith as a child; we DO know that he was baptized as an adult. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/12 "2011-05-10T16:31:16Z")
To the OP. No. And No. Islam is not Judaism. What you are born as is irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/13 "2011-05-10T17:47:48Z")
**CookingWithGas** , **Paul in Qatar** , and \*\*AK84 \*\*all make interesting points, informed as they are by different perspectives on Islam as it is practiced in different contexts. Could any of you be troubled to supply a citation? I realize this is trivia, but I’d like to be able to say I knew about this with some confidence. ( **Paul** , I realize that in your case you may be getting your info “right from the horse’s mouth”, but I’m sure you understand why I’m asking.) ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/14 "2011-05-10T19:08:07Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > To the OP. No. And No. Islam is not Judaism. What you are born as is irrelevant. Completely disagree with this. While nominally Islam requires more than being born into it, it is very very common (at least in the Muslim parts I’m familiar with, that is Maghreb and Egypt) to consider the child of a Muslim to be Muslim him/herself (not that different from Christianism). The added factor is that of the apostasy thing, which can be quite overblown by Western Islamophobe nuts, but still does exist (though the possible backlash for abandoning Islam is more varied than what same Islamophobes would lead you to believe). ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/15 "2011-05-10T19:27:53Z")
Skald, I thought John was asking about the ‘person’ aspect of making the declaration, not saying he is still is or is both or anything near that. Kind of like asking if it makes a difference if the person signing a contract is over 18. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/16 "2011-05-10T19:39:40Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Completely disagree with this. While nominally Islam requires more than being born into it, it is very very common (at least in the Muslim parts I’m familiar with, that is Maghreb and Egypt) to consider the child of a Muslim to be Muslim him/herself (not that different from Christianism). The added factor is that of the apostasy thing, which can be quite overblown by Western Islamophobe nuts, but still does exist (though the possible backlash for abandoning Islam is more varied than what same Islamophobes would lead you to believe). I am actually muslim. And I know of no reasonable muslim who seriously Obama a muslim. Being born into the faith is one thing, being a muslim is something else entirely as is leaving said faith. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/17 "2011-05-10T19:48:15Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Yes, I did. I also read the post by **Paul** which you replied to. He wrote > > to which you replied > > In your post, you ignored Paul’s point about the centrality of baptism to Xtianity and the inconsistency of being both Xtian and Muslim. But this thread isn’t about what Christians think. The OP is asking us what Muslims think. > [@](#): > > Moreover, we don’t know that Obama ever made a confession of faith as a child; we DO know that he was baptized as an adult. Well, we’re trying to establish if there is some scenario in which some Muslims might consider Obama to be one of them. We know he went to Mosque from time to time as a child. My question was quite clear, in response to what Paul was saying a “person” must do: can that “person” be a child? I’ll wait for Paul or someone knowledgeable to answer that. And just to be clear, I (and now most Americans) think Obama is a Christian. But that is not the question being asked by the OP. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/18 "2011-05-10T20:00:22Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I am actually muslim. And I know of no reasonable muslim who seriously Obama a muslim. > > Being born into the faith is one thing, being a muslim is something else entirely as is leaving said faith. Would any “reasonable” Muslims think Obama is an apostate? That was a meme circulating on the internet during the election. ---
**Author:** ![HawksPath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f07891/32.png) [@HawksPath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HawksPath)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2011, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/19 "2011-05-10T23:19:10Z")
On a related note to the OP. Which religions count you as a member even if you don’t believe in any of their principles/dogma/claims/faith? Which ones can you claim to be a member of without shared beliefs? My understanding is that Judaism fits both questions. If your mom is Jewish, you can be an athiest and call yourself a Jew and be admitted as one by those faithful in Judaism. Which other religions fit one or both of these criteria and are any of these branches of Islam? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280/20 "2011-05-11T03:15:10Z")
If you’re baptized a Catholic, you’re a Catholic. Even if you’re excommunicated, that just means you can’t take communion, but you’re still a Catholic. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-some-muslims-consider-barack-obama-a-muslim/581280.md?page=2)