# Would Texas ever separate from America?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 30, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324 "2011-04-30T22:58:52Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/21 "2011-05-01T13:17:41Z")
Secession is simply illegal. No amount of talk can change that, no technically, no secret agreement, nothing. Texas trying to leave the Union without Congressional approval would lead to war. It would be a war Texas would lose.
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/22 "2011-05-01T14:37:24Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#):
>
> Secession is simply illegal. No amount of talk can change that, no technically, no secret agreement, nothing. Texas trying to leave the Union without Congressional approval would lead to war. It would be a war Texas would lose.
I don’t think it would even lead to war. In this day and age if it looked like it was an even remotely serious possibility I think the Federal government would pre-emptively respond to the situation. The Governor of Texas would be arrested on Federal charges, the entire Texas National Guard would be Federalized and any individuals refusing to report for duty would be arrested on suspicion of being pro-secessionist.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/23 "2011-05-01T15:22:30Z")
> [@Koxinga](#):
>
> I get so tired of people confusing us with California, or Arizona. Mexico looms large in the Texan character, it’s a major part of who we are.
As I understand it, in a few years it’ll be the _majority_ part of who you are, and the Texas character will be a Tejas one.
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### Author:  [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/24 "2011-05-01T15:24:45Z")
> [@LilShieste](#):
>
> I agree with you - but just wanted to point out that [our governor](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/15/governor-says-texans-want-secede-union-probably-wont/) is a proponent.
Here’s Governor Goodhair’s [latest whine](http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2011/04/rick_perry_whines_about_helpin.php):
> [@](#):
>
> More than 300 people have died and entire neighborhoods have been wiped off the map across the South because of massive tornadoes, and Governor Rick Perry has one question for President Obama: “Why are you taking care of Alabama and other states?”
>
> Perry whined to reporters yesterday that the Obama administration had issued disaster declarations for the tornado-struck areas where 300 people have been killed and not in Texas, which has had some wildfires.
During the recent Governor’s race, Perry ran spots that were extremely rude to Obama. And he even flirted with the nutcase, vanishingly tiny minority for secession during the primaries; Kay Bailey Hutchison is a bit liberal for a Republican.
Bill White was Houston’s mayor & only stepped down because of term limits. Texas cities wanted him as governor but we were outnumbered by the redneck yahoos & tightassed suburbanites. I don’t see any Nation of Texas getting by without the cities. (Sam Houston was governor in 1861 & had to leave office because he refused to swear allegiance to the Confederacy.)
Anyone up for an [Aggie joke](http://galleries.statesman.com/gallery/ben-sargent-2010/#141634)?
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### Author:  [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/25 "2011-05-01T16:31:34Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> As I understand it, in a few years it’ll be the _majority_ part of who you are, and the Texas character will be a Tejas one.
No biggie. Tejano music & Tex Mex food, sounds good to me.
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### Author:  [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/26 "2011-05-01T16:38:04Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#):
>
> The Governor of Texas would be arrested on Federal charges, the entire Texas National Guard would be Federalized and any individuals refusing to report for duty would be arrested on suspicion of being pro-secessionist.
Since this is a board dedicated to fighting ignorance, please do enlighten me as to what specific violations of the US Code these individuals would be charged with.
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/27 "2011-05-01T16:44:08Z")
> [@Koxinga](#):
>
> Since this is a board dedicated to fighting ignorance, please do enlighten me as to what specific violations of the US Code these individuals would be charged with.
Would that fall under treason?
I seem to recall some town or country – not in Texas, but somewhere Out West – as a semi-joke announcing they were seceding due to some minor grievance, and they found themselves occupied by the army. That must have been around 1980. Sound familiar to anyone? I don’t think it was even a place bordering a neighboring country.
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/28 "2011-05-01T16:53:07Z")
> [@Grumman](#):
>
> You can’t think of any potential setbacks that would prevent you conscripting tens of millions of men and forcing them to kill their fellow Americans?
It will no different from the Southern Rebellion,
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### Author:  [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/29 "2011-05-01T17:00:06Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> It will no different from the Southern Rebellion,
It’s called the War of Northern Evilness now.
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### Author:  [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/30 "2011-05-01T17:03:51Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> Hyperbolic rhetoric anyone?
It’s not hyperbolic rhetoric if it’s not obvious to any regular Joe that he’s speaking of an unrealistic scenario. His phrasing suggests that he thinks it is a realistic scenario, which is kind of the exact opposite of hyperbole.
> [@Odesio](#):
>
> Based on that article, no, Perry is not a proponent of secession.
Fair enough. He’s not _currently_ a proponent of secession, but _would be_ a proponent of secession if “Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people”.
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### Author:  [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/31 "2011-05-01T17:09:07Z")
> [@LilShieste](#):
>
> It’s not hyperbolic rhetoric if it’s not obvious to any regular Joe that he’s speaking of an unrealistic scenario. His phrasing suggests that he thinks it is a realistic scenario, which is kind of the exact opposite of hyperbole.
> Fair enough. He’s not _currently_ a proponent of secession, but _would be_ a proponent of secession if “Washington continues to thumb their nose at the American people”.
Which is exactly why many colonies revolted.
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### Author:  [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/32 "2011-05-01T17:15:35Z")
> [@Koxinga](#):
>
> Since this is a board dedicated to fighting ignorance, please do enlighten me as to what specific violations of the US Code these individuals would be charged with.
It would probably be akin to Eisenhower using the military to enforce _Brown v. Board_.
Imagine what would be going down in Texas as they moved toward secession, there would have to be some laws passed or actions taken in the legislature of Texas. A concerned Texas citizen would file suit saying that Texas movement to end union with the other States would deprive that Texas citizen of their rights as an American citizen.
It would quickly reach the SCOTUS and the SCOTUS would rule (just as it has before) that secession is not constitutionally possible. If the government of Texas continued their moves toward secession the military could come in and arrest those responsible.
That’s the slowest-case scenario.
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/33 "2011-05-01T17:15:43Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#):
>
> I seem to recall some town or country – not in Texas, but somewhere Out West –
I meant some town or _county_, of course.
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### Author:  [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/34 "2011-05-01T17:20:38Z")
Perry has a habit of talking out of both sides of his mouth regaring the federal government. In the past he’s danced around the notion of seccession and refused federal funds from the stimulus, then he’s changed his mind and accepted them after all, to the tune of about $6 billion. As of right now he’s publically criticizing Obama for not declaring a federal emergency and not doing more to help with the wildfires in north and west Texas, although according to FEMA we’ve received 22 federal grants to help fight the fires. Perry’s talk is bluster; he would never seriously propose that Texas secede from the United States. Nobody with half a brain wants that.
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### Author:  [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/35 "2011-05-01T17:21:01Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> Which is exactly why many colonies revolted.
But our Revolution was started by the educated elite. Governor Rick doesn’t exactly have a [brain trust](http://www.texasobserver.org/loonstarstate/item/15927-gunplay-at-the-capitol) on tap.
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### Author:  [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/36 "2011-05-01T18:25:49Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> Which is exactly why many colonies revolted.
But there’s a bit of a difference between a secession and a revolution. [Many Texans, (presumably including Perry, based on his comments)](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_state_surveys/texas/in_texas_31_say_state_has_right_to_secede_from_u_s_but_75_opt_to_stay), are under the impression that Texas can secede the country at any time (essentially without declaring war on the U.S.). They’re not claiming that they can _revolt_ any time they want - they are claiming they can _secede_ any time they want.
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### Author:  [@LilShieste](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LilShieste)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/37 "2011-05-01T18:36:02Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#):
>
> Anyone up for an [Aggie joke](http://galleries.statesman.com/gallery/ben-sargent-2010/#141634)?
A twofer:
[http://www.gocomics.com/bensargent/2009/06/17/](http://www.gocomics.com/bensargent/2009/06/17/)
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### Author:  [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/38 "2011-05-01T18:38:49Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#):
>
> It would quickly reach the SCOTUS and the SCOTUS would rule (just as it has before) that secession is not constitutionally possible. If the government of Texas continued their moves toward secession the military could come in and arrest those responsible.
Again, arrest them on what specific charges? Would a legislator voting the inncorrect way on an issue constitute a crime, and again what crime?
I don’t recall Gov Wallace ever having been thrown in federal prison…
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### Author:  [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/39 "2011-05-01T18:48:58Z")
The OP and several posts seem to assume that secession would automatically be opposed by federal military force, and could only be won by a long-odds insurgency–or that fighting would be preempted by other federal action.
Conversely, I think that while secession may seem less thinkable now than in the 1850s, a federal war against secessionists is _even_ less so, if a genuine majority of any state’s people were somehow to come to support it.
Of course for the time being that’s not the case in Texas or anywhere else.
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### Author:  [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)
#### Post date: [May 1, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/40 "2011-05-01T19:02:51Z")
Also all seem to assume that any form of secession is ipso facto illegal, but this isn’t true either. If Texas and the other states can reach mutual agreement to part ways, either through Congress or via constitutional convention, then secession would be legal.
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