# Would Texas ever separate from America?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [April 30, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324 "2011-04-30T22:58:52Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 5
### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/81 "2011-05-03T05:15:50Z")
> [@pravnik](#):
>
> Well, I _tried_ to vote twice, but they wouldn’t let me for some reason.
IIRC, Texas only lets people listed as deceased vote twice in any given election.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/82 "2011-05-03T05:18:27Z")
> [@LilShieste](#):
>
> I agree with you - but just wanted to point out that [our governor](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/15/governor-says-texans-want-secede-union-probably-wont/) is a proponent.
Except when he is [sucking Obama’s federal cock](http://www.texasinsider.org/?p=45832) for that sweet, sweet FEMA spooge.
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/83 "2011-05-03T05:32:57Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#):
>
> Do you have to live in Texas to disagree with Texans?
No, but it does lend a little more credibility, especially in this case, if you have some experience with what you’re talking about. Plus note that Texas these days is a fairly Republican state overall, and Curtis has a history of knee-jerk defenses of all things Republican.
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### Author:  [@DrumBum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrumBum)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/84 "2011-05-03T13:01:41Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#):
>
> Not even close. .
And even that is being charitable. A combination of math errors and a rush to catch the the shuttle made for a ill-advised post. .:smack:
My thanks to you and apologies to all.
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### Author:  [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/85 "2011-05-03T14:18:21Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> Oh for crap’s sake… you do realize the mayor of Houston for instance is a Democrat?
Not only a Democrat, but a lesbian. Both Houston and Dallas regularly elect Democrats as mayor, including female and black Democrats.
And this is not unusual. Almost ALL big American cities, in Texas and everywhere else, have Democrat mayors, often very liberal ones.
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/86 "2011-05-03T14:21:36Z")
> [@Naxos](#):
>
> The decent people living in the hell hole of Texas don’t seem to be capable of changing their reality.
I’d say look at a longer time line and also look at the urban/rural divide in Texas.
The major urban areas of Texas (Dallas, Austin, San Antonio, Houston) all pretty much vote Democrat. There’s also a major demographic shift with Hispanics coming to be a major force in coming elections. Beyond that, the younger generations track more liberal than their elders.
Basically, the “decent” people are changing their reality. It’s just taking time. It’s also a major concern for Texas’ Republicans. The leadership can see the writing on the wall and are trying their best to recruit among Hispanics while also maintaining their hold on mostly rural (and affluent suburban) parts of Texas. It’s proving to be difficult. You can’t demonize an entire demographic and expect them to be amenable to your pleas, though there was a nifty article in this month’s “Texas Monthly” that touched on the inroads Republicans have made with the burgeoning Hispanic upper and middle class.
Of course, the existing power infrastructure is fighting back. You only have to look at the current map of the state’s voting districts to realize that. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that a thin voting district that spreads from Austin all the way to the Mexican border or another thin wormy-looking district that connects Austin and Houston are gerrymandered to hell and back. But it can’t hold. The state’s Republicans are already grousing because they basically have to give up firm control of some seats in the current round of district reorganization because of changing demographics and population shifts.
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### Author:  [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/87 "2011-05-03T15:33:44Z")
> [@Naxos](#):
>
> I get my idea of Texas out of reality.
>
> They’re scoring at the bottom 5% in about a dozen metrics, from education to social welfare.
>
> It’s because they’re all Republicans. The US can do without Texas. It’s dragging the Union down and the numbers are there to show it.
The state of Texas has had 45 different Governors: 38 Democrats, 5 Republicans (one served part of his time as a Unionist), and 2 others.
Texas has had 45 different Lieutenant Governors: 38 Democrats and 7 Republicans.
Here is a list of the five largest cities in Texas along with their mayors.
Houston Anise Parker
San Antonio Julian Castro
Dallas Dwaine Caraway
Austin Lee Leffingwell
Fort Worth Mike Moncrief
Care to guess what all of them have in common? That’s right, they are all Democrats. Also, just to throw it in there since it was just recently knocked out of the top five cities list in the latest census, El Paso also has a Democratic Mayor in John Cook.
Here are some results on political orientation from a 2009 Gallup poll (I’m sure there is something more recent, but I didn’t bother looking).
[State of the States: Political Party Affiliation](http://www.gallup.com/poll/114016/state-states-political-party-affiliation.aspx)
[QUOTE=Gallup]
The most balanced political states in 2008 were Texas (+2 Democratic), South Dakota (+1), Mississippi (+1), North Dakota (+1), South Carolina (even), Arizona (even), Alabama (+1 Republican), and Kansas (+2 Republican).
[/QUOTE]
Finally, do you think it just might be possible that a big portion of the reason that Texas scores low on Education and Social Welfare might be the fact that the state has a massive population of non-English speaking hispanics (with a Mexican border almost nine times the length of California’s) and the largest rural population in the country? Do you think it’s possible that these facts make it likely that Texas would rank low regardless of which political party is in control in the state?
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### Author:  [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/88 "2011-05-03T15:59:35Z")
> [@Naxos](#):
>
> Because telling the ignorant they are worthless trash is dangerous, not because they are not, but because they are all carrying illegal guns on them.
>
> That’s _their_ American Way… Kill.
New York and California both have higher rates of murder by firearm than Texas according to the FBI. Texas rates right near the national average while that Republican stronghold of the District of Columbia is the worst by far.
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### Author:  [@LonghornDave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonghornDave)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/89 "2011-05-03T16:06:35Z")
Of note, a ranking of Fortune 500 companies by city puts Houston as #2 and Dallas as #3 both behind New York City.
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/90 "2011-05-03T16:20:23Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#):
>
> Here are some results on political orientation from a 2009 Gallup poll (I’m sure there is something more recent, but I didn’t bother looking).
Just to play devil’s advocate, the Texas state legislature has a current super-majority of 101 (out of 150) House Republicans, which is massively up from the slight majority of 76 Republican members in the 81st House. It also means that the Democrats can’t just leave the state to hold up business.
Some of that is part of the strong national Tea Party showing in 2010, but it does show there is still a strong conservative base in the state.
Also, the shift to a majority Republican Texas came recently, meaning the comparisons of Governors and Lieutenant Governors (good luck getting elected as a Republican in 1900) are not apt. Heck, more than half the Republican governors are from the last 30 years (Bill Clements, George W Bush, and Rich Perry) and there hasn’t been a Democrat as Governor or Lieutenant Governor in over a decade.
Even Rick Perry started his career as a Democrat and switched parties. That’s been the trend. Many of the Texas Democrats of the 80s are now Republicans.
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/91 "2011-05-03T16:26:54Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#):
>
> New York and California both have higher rates of murder by firearm than Texas according to the FBI. Texas rates right near the national average while that Republican stronghold of the District of Columbia is the worst by far.
Texas also has, by far (more than 4x the next closest), the [highest number of prisoners executed](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States#Capital_punishment_resumed).
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### Author:  [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/92 "2011-05-03T16:40:58Z")
> [@Markxxx](#):
>
> If the want to go, BYE, and take California with them too…
As a Californian, I don’t know that I’d be altogether opposed to seceding and becoming our own nation. Think of the revenue we could make by charging the rest of the U.S. exorbitant prices for the fruits of the entertainment and tech industries you can’t live without.
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/93 "2011-05-03T17:06:00Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#):
>
> As a Californian, I don’t know that I’d be altogether opposed to seceding and becoming our own nation. Think of the revenue we could make by charging the rest of the U.S. exorbitant prices for the fruits of the entertainment and tech industries you can’t live without.
California already charges exorbitant prices for that stuff.
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### Author:  [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/94 "2011-05-03T17:11:21Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#):
>
> Texas also has, by far (more than 4x the next closest), the [highest number of prisoners executed](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_the_United_States#Capital_punishment_resumed).
Now there you go, criticizing our rather novel approach to reducing the illiteracy rate.
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### Author:  [@spazattak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spazattak)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/95 "2011-05-03T17:20:13Z")
> [@](#):
>
> **from a Texan at the Alamo**
> Is this thing still in effect?
..while staring at the Texas Declaration of Independence.
Yes it’s still in effect. You still have your independence. from Mexico.
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### Author:  [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/96 "2011-05-03T17:28:23Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#):
>
> Due in part to illegal immigration.
Oh for crap’s sake… you do realize the mayor of Houston for instance is a Democrat?
[/QUOTE]
And an out lesbian, let’s not forget that.
Dallas’ mayor is a Democrat, and a black man.
San Antonio’s mayor is a Democrat, and a hispanic man.
Austin’s mayor is a Democrat and a white man.
And, for what it’s worth, all my guns are legal!
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### Author:  [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/97 "2011-05-03T17:29:03Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#):
>
> California already charges exorbitant prices for that stuff.
Yeah, but we could charge even more with an export tax.
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### Author:  [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/98 "2011-05-03T17:30:29Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#):
>
> As a Californian, I don’t know that I’d be altogether opposed to seceding and becoming our own nation. Think of the revenue we could make by charging the rest of the U.S. exorbitant prices for the fruits of the entertainment and tech industries you can’t live without.
I am pretty sure we can live without the products of Hollywood. In fact, I’d say that we’d probably be better off without the majority of it’s hype ridden hogwash. Most of the movies are shot elsewhere, anyway. Tech can be had elsewhere as well (TX, for instance).
Again, remember, we already had a war to decide whether any of us can secede. IIRC, it was decided that you can’t. Not Texas, not California, and not Vermont. We are stuck with each other. Can we please move on to figuring out how we can get along? Repeatedly calling each other douchebags doesn’t seem to be doing much good.
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### Author:  [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/99 "2011-05-03T17:39:26Z")
> [@LonghornDave](#):
>
> Finally, do you think it just might be possible that a big portion of the reason that Texas scores low on Education and Social Welfare might be the fact that the state has a massive population of non-English speaking hispanics (with a Mexican border almost nine times the length of California’s) and the largest rural population in the country? Do you think it’s possible that these facts make it likely that Texas would rank low regardless of which political party is in control in the state?
That, and the fact that the conservative led Texas Board of Education is kind of a joke?
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### Author:  [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)
#### Post date: [May 3, 2011, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-texas-ever-separate-from-america/580324/100 "2011-05-03T18:11:54Z")
> [@scabpicker](#):
>
> I am pretty sure we can live without the products of Hollywood. In fact, I’d say that we’d probably be better off without the majority of it’s hype ridden hogwash. Most of the movies are shot elsewhere, anyway. Tech can be had elsewhere as well (TX, for instance).
>
> Again, remember, we already had a war to decide whether any of us can secede. IIRC, it was decided that you can’t. Not Texas, not California, and not Vermont. We are stuck with each other. Can we please move on to figuring out how we can get along? Repeatedly calling each other douchebags doesn’t seem to be doing much good.
Sure, people _could_ live without the products of Hollywood. But I bet 99% of Americans would refuse to do so. As far as tech, it can be had elsewhere, but California absolutely dominates the market. The rest of the country would be pretty screwed without us.
None of which makes any difference, because I don’t think we should (or could) secede. I think all talk of states leaving the union are idiotic. I was merely replying (tongue-in-cheek) to the “Take California with you” post.
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