# Would the Rapture Be Proof Enough? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 15, 2002, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059 "2002-08-15T17:42:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/81 "2002-08-16T10:32:29Z")
I would just assume all the missing people were vacationing at Heritage USA and go back to sleep. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/82 "2002-08-16T11:23:03Z")
**Dreamer** , I’m a devout Christian who does _not_ believe in the Rapture, and, if I’m wrong about it, one who has expressed her wish that she be deliberately left behind. Based on what I’ve read of what people who believe in the Rapture believe, there’s going to be one hell of a mess to clean up, and someone’s going to have to do it. Rapture theology, as far as I’ve been able to make out, based on prior reading, is based on less than a dozen verses out of the entire bible, coupled with some apocalyptic thinking from the same era in US history which produced the Church of Latter Day Saints, the 7th Day Adventists, and others. It is also, IMHO, a rather nasty form of theology. The idea that the God who healed the sick and cared for the poor and outcast would willfully endanger his children by taking people out of moving vehicles or airplanes (if you read LaHey), is abhorrent. Christ asked a woman who good, respectable, Jews would not have spoken to for a drink, and then revealed Himself to be the Messiah. Would this same God condemn billions of non-believers not only to death but to trial, tribulation, and hardship without even the hope of grace? This is not meant to disparage you, particularly, **dreamer**. I like some of what you’ve written, but all too many people who believe in the Rapture seem caught up in declaring themselves superior because they’re Christians. I’m a Christian, which makes me a fool, and, if anything, inferior. I place absolute trust in something I cannot see or taste or touch, but which saved my life a decade ago. As a girl, I loved my neighbor better than myself, and was made outcast for it (long story omitted). Christ will come again, and, by what he has taught, my place in heaven is assured. That’s not my worry. If anything, I’d argue that that last bit of foolishness was given so I wouldn’t have to worry about that. My concern is what I can do here, in this world, at this time. Prepare for the Rapture? My confession is made. As for the rest, I’ll continue to do the best I can to love my neighbor as myself, including Mr. Visible :rolleyes:, and, as the hymn goes, “love justice, show mercy, [and] walk closely with my God.” By the way, just **once** , I’d like to meet someone who believes in the Rapture, but _doesn’t_ believe they’ll be getting a direct pass to heaven out of it! CJ ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/83 "2002-08-16T11:36:23Z")
> [@](#): > > As for the rest, I’ll continue to do the best I can to love my neighbor as myself, including Mr. Visible :rolleyes:, and, as the hymn goes, “love justice, show mercy, [and] walk closely with my God.” Just a note: If you’re going to talk about loving your neighbor, including rolleyes isn’t the way to do it. Otherwise, excellent post! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/84 "2002-08-16T11:44:04Z")
Yup. Given evidence of that magnitude, I’d admit there might be something to it. Can you give me a list, though, of which groups are going to get raptured? ---
**Author:** ![keeper0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@keeper0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeper0)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/85 "2002-08-16T14:26:25Z")
Did I miss **dreamer’s** response about his willingness to accept Ragnarok? > [@](#): > > **From CJ** > By the way, just once, I’d like to meet someone who believes in the Rapture, but doesn’t believe they’ll be getting a direct pass to heaven out of it! Ain’t that the truth. Every time I see one of those bumper stickers, I want to slap one next to it that says “Pride goeth before the fall.” ---
**Author:** ![EchoKitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f4b2a3/32.png) [@EchoKitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EchoKitty)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/86 "2002-08-16T14:38:33Z")
Dreamer, just a quick question…when the Rapture comes and the christians leave, will people float up slowly, lightly, with organ music? Or will they sort of “pop” and disappear like so many soap bubbles? Or will they walk to a central transportation depot and leave in an orderly fashion in some sort of vehicle? I find it amusing that anyone takes stock in this. I mean, if you buy into this, I have some oceanfront property for you in Colorado. But if it ever happened, I’d have to believe. After all, it couldn’t be aliens…we’d see them coming in so it wouldn’t be a surprise. But why would you bank on something so preposterous when it is so much easier to believe that people just live their lives and die? It is WAY TOO MUCH WORK to convince oneself that the rapture is even a remote possibility. Twisting words and images around to fit a bizarre scenario like this takes time and energy (and an extended cocktail hour, I might add). What exactly is it that makes this plausible to you, Dreamer? I’m serious. Why does something this strange and magical look like the real thing to you? ---
**Author:** ![dreamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@dreamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamer)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/87 "2002-08-16T14:43:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cjhoworth \* > I’m a devout Christian who does _not_ believe in the Rapture, and, if I’m wrong about it, one who has expressed her wish that she be deliberately left behind. Based on what I’ve read of what people who believe in the Rapture believe, there’s going to be one hell of a mess to clean up, and someone’s going to have to do it. I’ve thought about this many times and have wondered the same things myself. If I had a choice in the matter I would probably choose to stay behind as well. I know I’ve got a place in Heaven so if I had to endure the trials and tribulations on earth for awhile for the sake of others, that would be okay with me. I’m not saying I would want to be a saint or anything, but if I could be of help to anyone spiritually, physically, or emotionally I sure would want to be there to help. Who knows **jjimm** , it says in **Revelation 3:20** - "\*Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If **anyone** hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me. \* **John 8:12**"\*I am the light of the world. \*\*Whoever \*\*follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life \*. Those words “anyone” and “whoever” could mean well, _anyone and whoever_, so really I don’t think there are “groups”. There are bible “believers” in every walk of life and in every nation and I wouldn’t be surprised if, in other countries, people who do believe have to hide it from their families and sort of believe in secret. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/88 "2002-08-16T15:05:56Z")
**cjhoworth** , I just want to say that the more I read from you, the more I like. Excellent post. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/89 "2002-08-16T15:08:14Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m not saying I would want to be a saint or anything, but if I could be of help to anyone spiritually, physically, or emotionally I sure would want to be there to help. Sounds like you have the makings of a _bodhisattva_. Sanskrit for “sitting at the feet of enlightenment,” the word is the Mahayana Buddhist term for individuals of great sanctity who have put off the attainment of enlightenment to alleviate the suffering of others. From the [_Vajradhvaha-sutra_](http://alexm.here.ru/mirrors/www.enteract.com/jwalz/Eliade/030.html): > [@](#): > > A Bodhisattva resolves: I take upon myself the burden of all suffering. I am resolved to do so, I will endure it. I do not turn or run away, do not tremble, am not terrified, nor afraid, do not turn back or despond. And why? At all costs I must bear the burdens of all beings. In that I do not follow my own inclinations. I have made the vow to save all beings. All beings I must set free. The whole world of living beings I must rescue, from the terrors of birth, of old age, of sickness, of death and rebirth, of all kinds of moral offence, of all states of woe, of the whole cycle of birth-and-death, of the jungle of false views, of the loss of wholesome dharmas, of the concomitants of ignorance, from all these terrors I must rescue all beings. The doctrines of Buddhism teach its believers to cultivate compassion for the suffering of all beings, which is, IMHO, a stark contrast to the selfish and mean-spirited Fundamentalist Protestant idea that only a select few will avoid the torments of the Tribulation and they will have no compassion or empathy for those who have been Left Behind. ---
**Author:** ![nahtanoj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@nahtanoj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nahtanoj)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/90 "2002-08-16T15:31:32Z")
Referring to the OP: Should the Rapture happen as described by traditional church dogma, I believe that it wouldn’t even be noticed since true followers of Christ are as rare as ivory-billed woodpeckers. (Which means they are never seen, but perhaps not yet extinct.) nahtanoj ---
**Author:** ![nahtanoj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@nahtanoj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nahtanoj)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/91 "2002-08-16T15:38:05Z")
> [@](#): > > Can you give me a list, though, of which groups are going to get raptured? Hey **jjimm** : 10 bucks says that the members of ACLU, Greenpeace, and Amnesty International all make it. nahtanoj ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/92 "2002-08-16T15:52:17Z")
sorry gobear, you are wrong. Its definitely in there. I am trying to find the verse. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/93 "2002-08-16T16:04:37Z")
“Thirdly, suppose the ‘rapture’ already happened about 300+ years ago…and the only people who were taken were the Jamestown colonists? Makes ya think.” —Gosh, I’d never _thought_ of that! What if the only true Christians were Amelia Earhart, Judge Crater, Jimmy Hoffa, D.B. Cooper and Little Charley Ross?! ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/94 "2002-08-16T16:06:35Z")
So can I believe at the last minute and get on the rapture bus too? What’s the time-limit on this thing? > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dreamer \* > **I know I’ve got a place in Heaven** You seem very sure of yourself. What if you’ve misinterpreted things? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/95 "2002-08-16T16:10:34Z")
Then I guess God would sublet… ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/96 "2002-08-16T16:17:52Z")
> [@](#): > > Sorry **Gobear** , you are wrong. Its definitely in there. I am trying to find the verse. Hey, I already quoted the relevant Scripture about the mark of the Beast. Until you can come up with evidence to support your position, I am right and you are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/97 "2002-08-16T16:31:36Z")
2 Thessalonians 2:7-12 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom Jesus will overthrow and destroy with the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of satan. FOR THIS REASON GOD SENDS THEM A POWERFUL DELUSION so they will believe the lie. Okay pal. ---
**Author:** ![dreamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6bbea6/32.png) [@dreamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dreamer)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/98 "2002-08-16T16:42:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by gobear \* > > I am right and you are wrong. It just wouldn’t be as fun without you here **gobear** 😉 ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/99 "2002-08-16T16:42:55Z")
Great quote, vanilla. Hey dreamer, you might want to remember that one the next time you think God can’t lie. 😛 Sheesh, isn’t Satan supposed to be the deceiver? Here we have God himself working to make sure that none of the children he loves will have the slightest idea of the truth. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2002, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059/100 "2002-08-16T16:48:08Z")
Good **Vaniila**. You came up with the evidence, so now I will say, **Vanilla** was right, and I was wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-rapture-be-proof-enough/124059.md?page=6)