# Would the student debt forgiveness deal been more palatable to those against it if reframed as student loan "interest" forgiveness? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 31, 2022, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672 "2022-08-31T19:22:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2022, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672/21 "2022-09-09T02:57:34Z")
Not sure it’s “hate” so much as “contempt.” They are simply not important, except to be used. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672/22 "2022-09-09T18:31:13Z")
It would not have been palatable to those opposed because it would still benefit the “wrong” people. It could have been five bucks and the MAGA nuts would be breathing fire and brimstone saying this would bankrupt the nation and end western civilization. If a Democrat does it, it’s wrong in their eyes- period. I agree with the program but would have been more supportive if the income level to qualify was lowered and the amount of relief raised. For a generation, we’ve told the youth that they can achieve their dreams, but if their dream requires college then they must go deeply in debt for decades- unless they are very poor or very rich. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672/23 "2022-09-10T04:41:51Z")
Speaking as a Republican and someone who has paid off their student debt. An acceptable plan to me would have been: Cap student loan rates at 2% (Currently 5-14%). [Cite](https://www.bankrate.com/loans/student-loans/current-interest-rates/) Recalculate existing accounts at that rate. Apply any excess to the principal of the loan. Carry on with life. You made the commitment with the expectation that you would repay it. Any excess money or previously paid off loans stay where they are. My beneficence only stretches so far. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672/24 "2022-09-10T04:52:34Z")
The Republican leadership probably does feel contempt for the working class people who make up their base. But until they can complete the process of stamping out democracy, they need that base to stay in power. And being forced by circumstances to have to pretend to like people you actually feel contempt for often leads to hate. Being able to openly express your contempt is cathartic. Having to hide the contempt you feel causes it to fester. So ironically, Republican politicians most likely hate Republican voters more than they hate Democrats. I guess I answered my own question. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2022, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672/25 "2022-09-10T21:14:15Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > An acceptable plan to me would have been: > Cap student loan rates at 2% (Currently 5-14%). Loan interest rates are set by _law_, if I recall correctly the law uses a formula based on the yield of 10-year Treasury notes. President Biden’s student debt forgiveness “deal” is a purely executive action relying on various statutory authorities to forgive student debt and lower the minimum monthly payment rate. No law was changed, to my knowledge. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2022, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672/26 "2022-09-11T15:29:40Z")
So today I see that a poll reports a plurality of Americans support Biden’s loan forgiveness plan: > **[Poll: Plurality of Americans say they support Biden's student loan...](https://news.yahoo.com/poll-plurality-of-americans-say-they-support-bidens-student-loan-forgiveness-plan-172801809.html)** > > Support for the White House’s plan varied among age groups, according to a new Yahoo News/YouGov poll. A majority of those ages 18-29 (53% support) and 30-44 (52%) backed the plan, while respondents ages 65 and over opposed the plan by a 43% to 47%... (However, while looking up this article, I found that another poll by the libertarian site [reason.com](http://reason.com) says that most Americans would oppose it if they realized it meant inflation would rise, colleges would raise tuition prices, more employers would require college degrees, volcanoes would erupt, and puppies would be kicked.) [Most Americans Like Student Debt Forgiveness Until They See Tradeoffs](https://reason.com/2022/09/02/most-americans-support-student-debt-forgiveness-until-they-think-about-it/) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2022, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672/27 "2022-09-11T15:37:17Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I found that another poll by the libertarian site [reason.com](http://reason.com) says that most Americans would oppose it if they realized it meant inflation would rise, colleges would raise tuition prices, more employers would require college degrees, volcanoes would erupt, and puppies would be kicked. Sure, taxing capital gains as income would solve our economic problems but the downside is it might cause the earth to fall into the sun. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2022, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672/28 "2022-10-10T19:53:18Z")
Without rereading this whole thing, I read there were a number of lawsuits causing the Bill to be slightly softened. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672/29 "2022-10-12T18:28:40Z")
I suspect you misread. There is no student debt relief bill so to speak. The plan is to use authority under existing laws like the HEROES Act of 2003 ([here is the Dept. of Justice’s opinion](https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opinions/attachments/2022/08/24/2022-08-23-heroes-act.pdf) on doing so). The Wall Street Journal did run the headline “The Student Loan Bill Comes Due”, but they meant “bill” as in “pay the bill”, not a legislative bill. The White House website still links to the original [fact sheet](https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/08/24/fact-sheet-president-biden-announces-student-loan-relief-for-borrowers-who-need-it-most/) published in August. There are five or so major lawsuits challenging the administration’s authority to forgive student debt. To my knowledge only [one aspect of the debt forgiveness plan has been softened](https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/29/biden-administration-scales-back-student-debt-relief-for-millions-amid-legal-concerns-00059522): the government will not forgive student debt held by private lenders and guaranteed by the federal government. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2022, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672/30 "2022-11-01T18:08:45Z")
The overlooked issue in the whole thing is that the $10k or $20k, nor the interest rate will not be an issue for most people. The repayment plans allow that X% of your household disposable income (defined by something) is your monthly payment for 10, 20, or 25 years (defined by something) and then that is the end of it. There is no reason to care about the principle amount or interest rate. There is no reason to demand that tuition rates stop increasing or to get value for money. There is no reason to be frugal: give me the gold star meal plan and the dorm with the swimming pool and coffee bar. The amount I have to repay will be exactly the same. ---
**Author:** ![Danger\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@Danger\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danger_Man)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2022, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672/31 "2022-11-15T18:49:27Z")
As a European leftist, some of the US leftist politics just seem so crude in a way. Yes, there are many government programs that help one group more than another, and in the case of students, that group is usually not the poorest one. But still, most governments recognize that funding higher education is beneficial. The problem in America is that you have to take these insane loans (or work really hard on the side) in order to get an education. It’s especially cruel in the cases where you find out you have been studying the wrong thing after several years, or drop out for various reasons. So the problem is that education is too expensive. The solution should then be to make it cheaper. Probably both through cost-cutting and government funding. Everyone benefits from a society where the best people are able to take an education at a reasonable price. I did way too many things wrong in school myself, but I now have a great job and pay lots of taxes. The small amount of student debt I have, which is government subsidized, I pay off last, since the interest is so low. What I don’t understand is just suddenly paying off people’s debt now. Is it a one-time thing, or an ongoing program? There will of course always be losers when policy is changed, but it must feel bitter for the ones who spent all their money paying off loans the last few years. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2022, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672/32 "2022-12-01T20:32:11Z")
> [@Danger\_Man](#): > > The problem in America is that you have to take these insane loans (or work really hard on the side) in order to get an education. It’s especially cruel in the cases where you find out you have been studying the wrong thing after several years,or drop out for various reasons. Therein lies the problem. I don’t think either of these two points in accurate. When my time to go to college came, I wanted to go to school in Boston. The cost at that school was about $50k a year. The local state school was about $12K a year. My father made about $20k a year so to the local state school I went. I could pay off my loans in an acceptable time. The point is many of these kids could go to much cheaper schools if they wanted to, but have choosen to have a better “College Experience ™.” The second error here is that students are studying the wrong thing. Collge is an investement. Invest wisely. If you really don’t think that a Master’s in English Literature from that expensive private school in the city is going to make you a good living, then don’t invest in that degree. It’s not rocket science to project what degree will give one what living. ---
**Author:** ![Danger\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/6de8d8/32.png) [@Danger\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danger_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672/33 "2022-12-02T07:32:44Z")
I get that ultimately it is your own responsibility, but it just seems much easier to make bad choices than in other western countries. It is also not so easy to see all the ramifications of your choices at 18. I think it would benefit society to get the costs down for the students in some way, so that more people who has the potential to learn something and contribute gets the chance. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672/34 "2022-12-02T12:19:06Z")
> [@Danger\_Man](#): > > I think it would benefit society to get the costs down for the students in some way, so that more people who has the potential to learn something and contribute gets the chance. I couldn’t agree more. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2022, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672/35 "2022-12-02T12:46:45Z")
I’m curious if there’s any political interest in a compromise where we agree to foreswear student debt forgiveness in exchange for making student loans interest-free forever. As in, newly issued loans have 0% interest, and existing loans are adjusted to 0% interest (but with existing balances intact). An education is not an appreciating asset. Your degree doesn’t get stronger over time, so there’s no reason the cost of that education should compound over time. As with all tradeoffs, nobody gets everything they want, but it’s better than nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672/36 "2022-12-05T15:34:16Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I’m curious if there’s any political interest in a compromise where we agree to foreswear student debt forgiveness in exchange for making student loans interest-free forever. Yeah, good luck with that. The federal student loan programs already generate a small loss before taking inflation into account. Furthermore people who meet income thresholds pay zero interest during school (govt subsidized loan). Nevertheless one of my Senators, Marco Rubio (R-FL), has proposed a similar bill with the notable addition of a significant origination fee. Something like 20% of the principal, but it doesn’t compound over time and people with limited means get a discount. I don’t think anyone else supports such a plan on either side of the Senate… maybe some House Progressives if you took away the origination fee. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2022, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672/37 "2022-12-05T15:44:22Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > Yeah, good luck with that. The federal student loan programs already generate a small loss before taking inflation into account. Good. It’s desirable for the government to lose money on student loans. They’re not supposed to be a profit center, they’re supposed to be an investment in the American people. Making tuition loans should absolutely be a money-losing enterprise for the government. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-student-debt-forgiveness-deal-been-more-palatable-to-those-against-it-if-reframed-as-student-loan-interest-forgiveness/970672.md?page=1)