# Would the UN condemn America's assassinating Bin Laden? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 27, 2004, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-un-condemn-americas-assassinating-bin-laden/236815 "2004-03-27T22:54:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-un-condemn-americas-assassinating-bin-laden/236815/61 "2004-03-28T19:49:01Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > The UN couldn’t condemn the US. We have veto power. It didn’t condemn Israel either because the USA vetoed it. \>\> In 1989 Hamas leader, Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, was arrested by the Israelis and sentenced to life imprisonment for ordering the killing of Palestinians who had allegedly collaborated with the Israeli army Except Israel later set him free as part of a deal. You cannot bring that up again. What was he doing _now_? He was paraplegic and blind. I have trouble imagining him as the mastermind of terrorist attacks. So far no evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Avenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Avenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Avenger)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-un-condemn-americas-assassinating-bin-laden/236815/62 "2004-03-28T20:34:11Z")
> [@](#): > > _Our_ soldiers have to die so _you_ feel all comfy and moral? That’s really not what **Grelby** said. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-un-condemn-americas-assassinating-bin-laden/236815/63 "2004-03-28T20:48:47Z")
> [@Avenger](#): > > That’s really not what **Grelby** said. “This is one of the reasons why this whole “war on terror” paradigm sucks so much: American (or insert other nationality here) soldiers HAVE to die in order to justify our moral stance in this conflict. If we stop sending in the boys to capture the criminals, and instead just bomb them from above or snipe them from a distance, then we destroy our claim to be fighting for justice, tenuous as it already is.” You tell me what I missed, mis-characterized, or mis-read. To my mind, this says: ‘you, soldiers - go out and die; make _our_ moral stance (meaning _the authors’_, as there is no evidence that the soldiers in question share this peculiar sense of morality!) justified by _your_ deaths’. If there is a quite different meaning to this, please share it. ---
**Author:** ![gum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bbe5ce/32.png) [@gum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gum)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-un-condemn-americas-assassinating-bin-laden/236815/64 "2004-03-28T20:58:14Z")
sailor, That’s funny. I have no trouble at all imagining ‘the sheik’ as the instigator of the terrorists attacks. Maybe we look differently at jewish people, huh. Here’s another link: [Following his release, Yassin returned to his role as spiritual leader of Hamas. He immediately resumed his calls for resistance to Israeli occupation using tactics including suicide bombings against both Israeli military and civilian targets.](http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/S/Sheikh-Ahmed-Yassin.htm) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-un-condemn-americas-assassinating-bin-laden/236815/65 "2004-03-28T23:00:11Z")
> [@gum](#): > > sailor, That’s funny. I have no trouble at all imagining ‘the sheik’ as the instigator of the terrorists attacks. What you imagine I do not care about. I care about facts. > [@](#): > > Maybe we look differently at jewish people, huh. Fuck off > [@](#): > > Here’s another link: [Following his release, Yassin returned to his role as spiritual leader of Hamas. He immediately resumed his calls for resistance to Israeli occupation using tactics including suicide bombings against both Israeli military and civilian targets.](http://www.worldhistory.com/wiki/S/Sheikh-Ahmed-Yassin.htm) The link does not say he was personally and actively involved in the organization, planning and execution of terrorist acts, only that he called for them. You might want to post links which support your position, not mine. And if indeed he was such a bad guy there should be loads of evidence. None has been presented so far. It seems a lot of people around here accept the guy was guilty of something because if the Israelis killed him he must have done something. Well, not me. ---
**Author:** ![agiantdwarf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8c91f0/32.png) [@agiantdwarf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/agiantdwarf)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-un-condemn-americas-assassinating-bin-laden/236815/66 "2004-03-28T23:16:14Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > It seems a lot of people around here accept the guy was guilty of something because if the Israelis killed him he must have done something. Well, not me. I posted this [Haaretz article](http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/409304.html) before, but it seems you overlooked it. > [@](#): > > The link does not say he was personally and actively involved in the organization But he was the head of the Gaza Strip’s Hamas! > [@](#): > > From the article: > > "After his release from prison, in October, 1997, Yassin was the elected **chairman of the movement in the Gaza Strip. His authority, his senior position in the movement** and his influence on its members derived from a combination of his cumulative experience, his personality, the successes of all the social and political projects he initiated, his personal sacrifices, the personal example he gave, the way he dealt with his handicap and his relationship with people. Also, > [@](#): > > Yassin once said to me," relates S., "what is a fatwa? Is it necessary to issue fatwas in order to kill or not to kill? There are collaborators who have committed many crimes, and there is no need for a fatwa in order to kill them. You’re telling me that even though Yassin was the _chairman_ of a part of Hamas, he is only guilty of encouraging terrorism? Sorry, I don’t buy it. ---
**Author:** ![EvilHamsterOnCrack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@EvilHamsterOnCrack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilHamsterOnCrack)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-un-condemn-americas-assassinating-bin-laden/236815/67 "2004-03-28T23:38:57Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Except Israel later set him free as part of a deal. You cannot bring that up again. What was he doing _now_? > > He was paraplegic and blind. I have trouble imagining him as the mastermind of terrorist attacks. So far no evidence. Actually, he didn’t go paraplegic and blind as a result of him being old. He became paraplegic and blind after a sporting accident in his youth. As far as evidence… the guy is the leader of HAMAS. This is the same Hamas that is the first to admit to terrorist attacks. The same HAMAS that organized rallies on the day of 9/11. And I quote from the Covenant of Hamas: > [@](#): > > Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it > [@](#): > > There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. The Palestinian people know better than to consent to having their future, rights and fate toyed with. [Quotes from the Hamas Covenent - Avalon Project - Yale Law School] ([http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/hamas.htm](http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/hamas.htm)) ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-un-condemn-americas-assassinating-bin-laden/236815/68 "2004-03-29T00:40:48Z")
Look, I have no interest in defending the guy. As far as I am concerned both sides can continue to kill each other if that’s what they want. I am staying out of it. Al I am saying is that I have seen no evidence so far that the guy personally and actively participated in terrorist acts. You give me cites which say he preached, he talked tough but no concrete evidence that he personally was involved in any specific terrorist acts. I just do not think talking tough is reason which justifies killing someone. I am prepared to condemn the wrongs committed by both sides or to stay out of it entirely and let them sort it out themselves but I am not prepared to condemn one side and give a free hand to the other. In the end the Israelis can do whatever they want and I am not taking sides. If the Israeli people believe this is what they want then let them do it but they should not ask for condemnation of the Palestinians when the consequences come to haunt them. ---
**Author:** ![EvilHamsterOnCrack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@EvilHamsterOnCrack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EvilHamsterOnCrack)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-un-condemn-americas-assassinating-bin-laden/236815/69 "2004-03-29T01:04:59Z")
Don’t get me wrong either. I don’t think his killing was a good idea. I think it will just bring more violence to the region. Whether I think it’s justified is something else. I do think it is. However, I don’t think it is a good strategic move. It’s bad for PR, bad for the region, bad for everything. If there was any sliver of doubt in any young palestinian’s mind about what Yassin and his Hamas buddies were preaching, it’s gone now. If anything, Israel has proven Yassin’s point, in the view of any young palestinian. Bad idea. We need to stop the violence, not perpetuate it. But for you to say that you see no firm connection between him and terrorism is absurd. The man started a terrorist organization. He didn’t just preach it (but preach it he did), he put into effect an organization devoted to acts of terrorism against Israeli civilians. Whether or not he actively participated in the planning of any terrorist attacks, I can’t be sure of. Think of it this way: If I were to hire 3 gunman, tell them that their mission was to kill all people with black hair, and then set them on their merry way to do it however they please, would you accuse me of the crime? Again, I don’t condone killing him. I think it was a bad idea for a volatile region. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-un-condemn-americas-assassinating-bin-laden/236815.md?page=3)