# Would the US accept a smallish European country as the 51st State? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 7, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157 "2009-09-07T13:21:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/21 "2009-09-07T16:19:34Z")
We’d probably take Switzerland. Having them as the 51st state would do wonders for our revenues, since the tax evaders’ accounts would fall under U.S. law. Add in the Caymans, and we’re suddenly almost solvent. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/22 "2009-09-07T16:21:51Z")
There’d be the issue of the name, for obvious starters. Plus the European country would have issues. America is a great place, but joining the EU would better for them. They get access to much localer infrastructure, for one. For another, becoming essentially an American colony in Europe they’d have to deal with political tensions. Also consider the Philippines. They could have been made a state, but it didn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/23 "2009-09-07T16:26:36Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Alaska is not too far away, and there is nothing but water between California and Hawaii. Both states can be reached without passing through or over another country. Same thing applies to Iceland. Or Eire, Norway, Portugal, or The Gambia, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/24 "2009-09-07T16:28:46Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Iceland would have to come after Canada. Canada no. 51. You know that that is nearly as offensive as suggesting that the United States could become an eleventh province of Canada, on a par with Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island, right? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/25 "2009-09-07T16:37:55Z")
I’d expect the field of stars on the flag would have six rows, three each of nine and eight. But I don’t think that would fit into the aspect ratio of the current field. So I don’t think the US would accept one. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/26 "2009-09-07T16:56:18Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Same thing applies to Iceland. Or Eire, Norway, Portugal, or The Gambia, for that matter. So what? How does this refute me? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/27 "2009-09-07T18:44:34Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > You know that that is nearly as offensive as suggesting that the United States could become an eleventh province of Canada, on a par with Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island, right? I’m going to be honest. Neither seems like it’d be offensive to me, just historical jokes about American attitudes in the war of 1812 and the earlier Revolutionary war era. For a good chunk of American history Americans did think Canada would join them, it turned out to be wrong, but meh. It’s like say a modern English man saying “yeah those uppity colonies are gonna come back any day now”, or an American in 2009 going “good news! they’re close to finding the WMDs in Iraq!”. In other words self parody of history. That said, I could see how some Canadians might be sensitive to it in light of the “America Jr.” jokes. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/28 "2009-09-07T19:48:35Z")
Heh. I think that Mexico and the US _should_ unite. It’s be good for us all in the long term, though we’d need to both liberalize drug laws and crackdown on gangs to do it. This also has the advantage of not necessarily upsetting the political balance in either section in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/29 "2009-09-07T20:31:44Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > The sticking point, moreso, would be that Iceland is probably full of liberals. They’d really need to either poll as being able to go to either party, or we’d need a second country that voted the other way asking to become the 52nd state. If liberals held a veto- and filibuster-proof majority in the legislature or a simple majority plus a liberal president, there would be no absolute need for such a balancing act. > [@The Tao's Revenge](#): > > Also consider the Philippines. They could have been made a state, but it didn’t happen. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I say no. Every territory previously admitted to statehood first had been colonized/settled by (mostly) Anglo-Americans to the point where they were the majority or at least dominant culture. Puerto Rico has been U.S. territory since 1898 and still is not a state because it still is culturally Spanish-speaking, Latin-American and Catholic. Fair-skinned protestants are a huge majority in Iceland. > [@](#): > > Beyond the population issue (it would be our least populous state), there’s a language and culture issue. > > Iceland could pretty much kiss their language and culture goodbye within about 50 years. Go to rural Louisiana, the Hawaiian islands (outside of resorts), Pennsylvania Dutch country, rural Louisiana, and any Southwest border town, and then tell me that there’s only one culture and one language in the United States. And these have all been U.S. territory for longer than 50 years, dating back to a time when the ideal of the “great melting pot” held sway and the word “multiculturalism” hadn’t even been invented. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/30 "2009-09-07T20:36:18Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > I’m going to be honest. Neither seems like it’d be offensive to me, just historical jokes about American attitudes in the war of 1812 and the earlier Revolutionary war era. I read **Polycarp** ’s remark as being offensive in the sense that today’s Canada is a federated country, made up of ten provinces and three territories. Assuming that in spite of this existing 13-subunit federation, Canada would have to join the US as just one state (the 51st) is the offensive part; which **Polycarp** further defined by comparing such a move to admitting the US (all 50 states, plus DC and various territories) to Canada as just one province, no more or less significant or influential than any other single province. I’m unsure if that’s what **Polycarp** meant, but that’s how I read it. Of course, if Canada did join the US as one single state, I guess Texans and Alaskans couldn’t brag about how big their states were any more. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/31 "2009-09-07T20:59:19Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I read **Polycarp** ’s remark as being offensive in the sense that today’s Canada is a federated country, made up of ten provinces and three territories. Assuming that in spite of this existing 13-subunit federation, Canada would have to join the US as just one state (the 51st) is the offensive part; which **Polycarp** further defined by comparing such a move to admitting the US (all 50 states, plus DC and various territories) to Canada as just one province, no more or less significant or influential than any other single province. Even as one province, the U.S. would overwhelm the House of Commons. The other way around, Canada gets about 1/10 of the House of Representatives and a whopping two Senators. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/32 "2009-09-07T21:33:48Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I read **Polycarp** ’s remark as being offensive in the sense that today’s Canada is a federated country, made up of ten provinces and three territories. Assuming that in spite of this existing 13-subunit federation, Canada would have to join the US as just one state (the 51st) is the offensive part; which **Polycarp** further defined by comparing such a move to admitting the US (all 50 states, plus DC and various territories) to Canada as just one province, no more or less significant or influential than any other single province. I’m unsure if that’s what **Polycarp** meant, but that’s how I read it. > > Of course, if Canada did join the US as one single state, I guess Texans and Alaskans couldn’t brag about how big their states were any more. 😃 This was exactly my point. Canada is larger by area than the total U.S., and has more population than any state but California, or than almost any other combination of two states (NY+FL and TX plus any other of the 10 most populous states being the only exceptions) – as populous as Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Kentucky combined. It is culturally more differentiated than the U.S. is. Most of the people over the years who have said “51st state” seem to have lost perspective or scale. That’s why I reversed the image – imagine if the US became the 11th Canadian province – the whole thing, Miami to Anchorage, Honolulu to Bangor, on a par with Saskatchewan or Nova Scotia. As someone once said, _that which you would not want to have done unto you, do not do that thing unto others._ ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/33 "2009-09-08T04:49:12Z")
Correction: The following quote appeared in post #29 without attribution, beneath a quote that was correctly attributed to BrainGlutton. > [@Chimera](#): > > Beyond the population issue (it would be our least populous state), there’s a language and culture issue. > > Iceland could pretty much kiss their language and culture goodbye within about 50 years. I regret any confusion caused by that post - or this post, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/34 "2009-09-08T06:11:42Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Iceland would have to come after Canada. Canada no. 51. > [@Polycarp](#): > > You know that that is nearly as offensive as suggesting that the United States could become an eleventh province of Canada, on a par with Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island, right? > [@Spoons](#): > > I read **Polycarp** ’s remark as being offensive in the sense that today’s Canada is a federated country, made up of ten provinces and three territories. Assuming that in spite of this existing 13-subunit federation, Canada would have to join the US as just one state (the 51st) is the offensive part; which **Polycarp** further defined by comparing such a move to admitting the US (all 50 states, plus DC and various territories) to Canada as just one province, no more or less significant or influential than any other single province. I’m still not offended. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/35 "2009-09-08T06:24:39Z")
You know, living in Texas every once in a while you’ll hear some douche say some thing to the effect of “Texas used to be it’s own country!!” They always get rather upset with me when I try to educate them that Texas was only it’s own country for 9 (or 10?) years. And even then, Texas didn’t _want_ to be it’s own country; they _wanted_ to be a part of the union. The Union just wasn’t sure if it wanted Texas. At least not for ten years or so. Not sure how this relates to this thread but there ya’ have it. ---
**Author:** ![waterj2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@waterj2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/waterj2)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/36 "2009-09-08T07:06:08Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > This was exactly my point. Canada is larger by area than the total U.S., and has more population than any state but California, or than almost any other combination of two states (NY+FL and TX plus any other of the 10 most populous states being the only exceptions) – as populous as Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Kentucky combined. It is culturally more differentiated than the U.S. is. Most of the people over the years who have said “51st state” seem to have lost perspective or scale. That’s why I reversed the image – imagine if the US became the 11th Canadian province – the whole thing, Miami to Anchorage, Honolulu to Bangor, on a par with Saskatchewan or Nova Scotia. As someone once said, _that which you would not want to have done unto you, do not do that thing unto others._ I appreciate what you’re saying, but the US having as our 2nd most populous state a landmass rather larger than the other 50 states combined isn’t all that comparable to Canada having an 11th province which contained, as far as I can calculate, about 90% of the population of the combined country. Sure, they’re both stupid ideas, but I don’t think it’s at all fair to claim that they’re _equally_ stupid ideas. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/37 "2009-09-08T08:03:58Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Although I’d like to extend an offer to Great Britain to dump the Monarchy and join the US as 5-8 new States. Those states would be: Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland, with England given the option of breaking into 2-5 separate US states for greater Senate representation. > > The culture shock and public outrage at the mere suggestion would be priceless. The public comments would be highly entertaining, wouldn’t they? That’s awfully kind of you old chap :dubious: A better idea would be if you colonials just tore up the DoI and asked _us_ if there was any chance you could return to the fold. Not that we’d let you but you could always ask, nicely ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/38 "2009-09-08T08:14:02Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > You know that that is nearly as offensive as suggesting that the United States could become an eleventh province of Canada, on a par with Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island, right? Ooh, can we? ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/39 "2009-09-08T08:17:38Z")
> [@TWDuke](#): > > Go to rural Louisiana, the Hawaiian islands (outside of resorts), Pennsylvania Dutch country, rural Louisiana, and any Southwest border town, and then tell me that there’s only one culture and one language in the United States. And these have all been U.S. territory for longer than 50 years, dating back to a time when the ideal of the “great melting pot” held sway and the word “multiculturalism” hadn’t even been invented. Yeah, and good chunks of New Mexico, the Yupik in Alaska, & more recently the Caribbean enclaves in New York & Florida, & of course there’s rural Louisiana. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2009, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157/40 "2009-09-08T11:30:48Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > I think we’d take Cuba, if given the chance, especially if, at some point in the future, Cuba opens up and half of Dade County moves back, bringing capital, organizational skills, and American culture with them. I don’t see this happening in the next 25 years, but it seems plausible that it could happen in 50. Um, a reverse exodus would be without precedent. Did the Irish move back from Boston after the potato famine? Did the Swedes give up Brainerd and Poulsbo? I know a couple guys who retired back to their home countries of Korea and Mexico, but their families didn’t follow them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/would-the-us-accept-a-smallish-european-country-as-the-51st-state/509157.md?page=3)